# US gold coins as currency **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 28, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657 "2021-01-28T00:45:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/41 "2024-05-19T16:59:08Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > One could have invested in the companies while changing their holdings as the DJIA changed (or later, by simply buying an index fund that tracks the DJIA), so it is useful as an actual alternative to holding gold for the same period. Add back in the dividends which were absolutely real, and it looks even better. Gold isn’t an investment, gold is money. One can’t invest in money, by definition. Obviously investing is the way to grow wealth over time compared with holding cash, but your comparison illustrates the root of the problem - the actual _unit of account_. FDR unilaterally outlawed gold coins and confiscated them. The unit of account post 1933 are ever depreciating dollars. Crunch those stock investment dividends since 1928 as if they were denominated in gold instead of a paper currency. Or US government gold bonds paying historical rates of 4% to 6% (another asset class that was outlawed, along with gold clause contracts ordinarily used for long term “99 year” real estate lease agreements.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/42 "2024-05-19T19:38:50Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Gold isn’t an investment, gold is money. Nope. Gold is a Commodity, and it traded and invested in. Go ahead and take a vial or gold dust or a small gold bar and try and buy your groceries. They want dollars. Or Euros or Pounds- whatever. If you want to pay with a $20 gold piece- they will give you $20 worth of groceries- then laugh all the way to the coin dealer. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/43 "2024-05-19T19:55:57Z")
To reinforce the idea that gold and silver are money, their sale is not taxed in 42 states. When you go to a bank and buy a roll of quarters, you do not pay sales tax. You are just exchanging the form of the money. Precious metals are treated the same way in those 42 states. There is pressure on the holdouts to enact new laws. Here is a comprehensive article rating each state in many aspects of this policy. [https://www.moneymetals.com/resources/sound-money-index](https://www.moneymetals.com/resources/sound-money-index) ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/44 "2024-05-19T20:19:35Z")
Gold is not a unit of account - prices for goods and services are quoted in dollars, not ounces of gold. It’s not a universal medium of exchange either - you’ll have difficulties doing your everyday purchases with gold. It may be a store of value, but so are many other commodities. Bottom line: The basic economic definition of “money” shows that gold does not meet that definition. The tax treatment is immaterial for that. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/45 "2024-05-19T21:26:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope. Gold is a Commodity Gold trades on the Currency desk. You completely missed the point at any rate. Read the post again. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/46 "2024-05-19T21:30:30Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Gold is not a unit of account - prices for goods and services are quoted in dollars It isn’t a unit of account any longer, _because they made it illegal_ for 50 years. Read what I wrote in that post, it isn’t really complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/47 "2024-05-19T21:34:15Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > The basic economic definition of “money” shows that gold does not meet that definition. It’s been money for more than 5,000 years. I’m pretty sure nothing else comes close. I believe in terms of currencies, maybe 125 to 150 years is about the record. Although the small size federal reserve notes since 1914 are still technically legal tender. I’d be interested in hearing the definition of money that could exclude gold. Let’s hear it! ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/48 "2024-05-19T22:20:34Z")
Something that can be used as a medium of exchange in a modern, fiat based economy. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/49 "2024-05-19T23:49:10Z")
Gold has not been used as money for a long time. Gold coins have been (though not so much any more), but that is different. A gold coin, like any coin or currency, were standardized by some agency (usually a government) to attest that it was gold, it had a certain fineness and weight, and more generally that you should accept it as money. Pure gold == not so much. And you don’t have to accept for for “All debts public and private.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/50 "2024-05-20T00:05:03Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > It isn’t a unit of account any longer, _because they made it illegal_ for 50 years. No, becuase _no where in the free world_ is it “money” or are any of their currencies based on it. Yes, at one time gold- and silver, and copper bars, and cattle hides, and huge stone wheels, and cowrie shells, and tea bricks, and etc etc= were used as money. But then economies got bigger and gold couldnt keep up. Nor could cowrie shells. > [@Common\_Tater](#): > > It’s been money for more than 5,000 years. I’m pretty sure nothing else comes close. I Nope, its has been money from about 500BC, so half that. And cattle have been money longer. It was first used around 9000BC, and it was still used as money in parts as Africa until aroudn the middle of the 20th century- that is 11000 years, 4 times that of gold. But just as with gold, you cant walk into a supermarket and buy your groceries with it. > [@Common\_Tater](#): > > I’d be interested in hearing the definition of money that could exclude gold. Can you walk into the local market and buy your groceries with it? Oxford says: _a current medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes; coins and banknotes_ [collectively](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=1f02d960573fba4c&sca_upv=1&q=collectively&si=ACC90nxkzgN-KbLuTWKT81WCi4_ntWPfI-OWP8jWIwvbDFjB5mXtmIE_CL3Hswosn3OPC-iEBRJ6YZDZLllpSQ1YB3rWkTLmQKYiXviXE5HJDJT9DAJjD0E%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjHo6jN9pqGAxUcBUQIHe83Ct0QyecJegQIHBAO). “I counted the money before putting it in my wallet” Gold is no longer a current medium of exchange. Nor can you pay your taxes with gold coins- liek you can with any US currency. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/51 "2024-05-20T02:03:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Can you walk into the local market and buy your groceries with it? You can if it is a Goldback. The Goldback is doing quite nicely in the 5 states that use it so far. It solves one of the problems of gold as currency, the ability to make small purchases. A Goldback is not just backed by gold, each one contains gold. The $1 Goldback has $2.40 worth of gold in each one and the exchange rate is now $5.02. It purchases $5.02 worth of goods and services in participating states. Goldbacks are fungible. If stored at one of the distributing agencies like Alpine Gold they earn interest. [https://www.goldback.com/frequently-asked-questions](https://www.goldback.com/frequently-asked-questions) I think if you could walk into a store with small coins that held $5 or $10 worth of gold their acceptance would be very rapid. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/52 "2024-05-20T02:26:28Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Gold has not been used as money for a long time Because they _outlawed_ it. Doesn’t that strike you as a little strange? ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/53 "2024-05-20T02:54:25Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > And you don’t have to accept for for “All debts public and private.” Well, right - but yet again these are circular arguments. They _outlawed_ gold, and confiscated all the coinage, that’s why it isn’t demanded for payment. Not because there was say, a burning desire en masse by the people to have a paper currency issued by governments with portraits of dead presidents. People had to be forced to do this. That’s what makes so-called fiat currencies have a certain constant base level of demand, they are acceptable for paying debts including taxes. Legal tender law. They are valuable, but mainly only because the government says they are. By “Fiat”, or “because I said so”. Nice, huh? Now as a business, or selling something you can require gold if you want (or wampum, or cash or whatever) for your wares if you choose, there’s no law that requires anyone to accept dollars. Some businesses do not accept cash, that is also their right, even though they are paid in dollars. Some businesses are cash only, etc. Point being the seller determines what is acceptable for payment. Debts that are denominated in dollars, they have to accept dollars. That includes cash. Check the fine print closely your annual property tax form closely - you’ll note that cash is OK, albeit a huge hassle these days. They _have_ to take it. That’s what “legal tender for all debts public or private” means. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/54 "2024-05-20T03:04:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, becuase _no where in the free world_ is it money Central banks believe it is money. It trades on the currency desk, remember? Everybody else thinks it’s money. I mean, maybe you’re right, but that’s probably not the way to bet. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/55 "2024-05-20T03:21:19Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > It trades on the currency desk, remember? Where is it traded on the currency desk and not the commodities desk? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/56 "2024-05-20T04:05:37Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Because they _outlawed_ it. Doesn’t that strike you as a little strange? The US did. Other nations did not in general. In any case, it is no longer outlawed ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/57 "2024-05-20T10:21:00Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > I’d be interested in hearing the definition of money that could exclude gold. I provided exactly that in my previous post. “Money” has a clear definition in economics: Anything that fulfils the three functions of unit of account, medium of exchange, and store of value. All three cumulatively. Gold, in the present state of the world, fulfils one of these three at most. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/58 "2024-05-20T10:24:13Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > It trades on the currency desk, remember? This is plainly not true. Gold trading is commodities trading. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/59 "2024-05-20T10:45:05Z")
a slight hi jack > [@md-2000](#): > > No, I recall this was a bunch of cowboys who ended up in modern day (well, 1980’s or something). When the guy asks if a $20 gold piece is any good, the store owner or whoever laughs at him (like “are you stupid?”) and tells him how much it’s worth today I remember that it was a TV series about a sheriff that had just finished or was about to finish off the gang they were after and struck by lightning and ended up in the 1980s and formed a detective agency here it is > **[Outlaws (1986 TV series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaws_(1986_TV_series))** > > Outlaws is an American science fiction Western television series which aired Saturday nights on CBS from December 28, 1986 until May 30, 1987. The original series began as a 2-hour pilot movie, and was followed by eleven one-hour episodes. > The story begins in Houston, Texas in 1899, as Sheriff Jonathan Grail tried to round up the villainous four-man Pike Gang, of which he had once been a member. After cornering the gang in a stormy Native American graveyard, a bolt of lightning struck all five ... I liked it but the problem was it was on late 80s CBS which almost no one watched and it was on Saturdays which was death for 90 percent of TV shows (except for me and my grandpa who liked the show lol ) and it was on after airwolf helped too ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657/60 "2024-05-20T15:59:17Z")
On the subject of gold as money: All these Preppers who hoard gold in anticipation of the forthcoming apocalypse, thinking that they’ll be able to buy whatever they need when paper money is worthless. Do they seriously think that the people with stocks of food, medicine, etc are going to want to trade their valuable commodities for pieces of yellow metal? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-gold-coins-as-currency/931657.md?page=4)