# US Government Assigning a SSN......not required?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 20, 2021, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671 "2021-06-20T03:47:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@mrdeals1990](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrdeals1990)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/1 "2021-06-20T03:47:48Z")
My wife and I had our first baby two weeks ago.
The next morning the hospital had us fill out some government paperwork.
One question has bugged me since i finished the paperwork. Question #12 on the one paper said something to the effect of:
“Would you like the United States social security office to assign a social security number”
Yes or No were the choices…what would of happened if i chose no?
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/2 "2021-06-20T03:58:27Z")
You child (and you or your spouse, if your child is still a minor) will have to go in to a Social Security office at a later date, probably with the birth certificate, and apply for a Social Security number at that point.
I don’t know if the SSA was assigning SSNs to newborns in the '60s, but my sister and I didn’t have SSNs until we moved to Wisconsin in 1975. As my parents had bought a hardware store, and would be employing my sister and me at some point, my mom, my sister, and I, went to the local SSA office shortly after we moved (I was 10, my sister was 6), and we got our numbers then. Because we applied at the same time, my sister and I have consecutive SSNs (i.e., only one digit apart).
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/3 "2021-06-20T04:18:32Z")
I’m pretty sure the newborn will need an SSN if you as the parents plan to claim the child as a dependent on your Federal tax return. So you’re free not to get an SSN for your newborn if you don’t care about the money.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/4 "2021-06-20T04:22:39Z")
Supreme Court case on topic:
> **[Bowen v. Roy, 476 U.S. 693 (1986)](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/476/693/)**
>
> Bowen v. Roy
And wiki article on the same case:
> **[Bowen v. Roy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowen_v._Roy)**
>
> Pages for logged out editors learn more
>
> Bowen v. Roy, 476 U.S. 693 (1986), was a United States Supreme Court case which established limits on freedom of religion in the United States.
> The plaintiffs were Native American parents who had applied for financial assistance under a U.S. government welfare program. One of the requirements to receive Aid to Families with Dependent Children and food stamps under these programs was that the applicants supply Social Security numbers for their chi...
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/5 "2021-06-20T04:26:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> I’m pretty sure the newborn will need an SSN if you as the parents plan to claim the child as a dependent on your Federal tax return.
Good point; I never thought about that, since I don’t have kids. Looking at the current 1040 and its instructions, the IRS is pretty clear about requiring a SSN in order to claim a child as a dependent. (I’m going to guess that that changed sometime between the 1970s and today, given that my parents didn’t seem to be in a big rush to get my sister and me SSNs.)
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/6 "2021-06-20T04:27:25Z")
Supposedly the year that the IRS started requiring tax returns to include the SSN of all dependents there was a mysterious drop (collectively in the millions) of claimed dependents.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/7 "2021-06-20T04:28:46Z")
Here’s what I found on [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#History) (looks like it was in 1986 when they started to tighten things):
> [@](#):
>
> Before 1986, people often did not obtain a Social Security number until the age of about 14,[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#cite_note-7) since the numbers were used for income tracking purposes, and those under that age seldom had substantial income.[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#cite_note-8) The [Tax Reform Act of 1986](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Reform_Act_of_1986) required parents to list Social Security numbers for each dependent over the age of 5 for whom the parent wanted to claim a [tax deduction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_deduction).[[9]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#cite_note-9) Before this act, parents claiming tax deductions were simply trusted not to lie about the number of children they supported. During the first year of the Tax Reform Act, this [anti-fraud](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fraud) change resulted in seven million fewer minor dependents being claimed. The disappearance of these dependents is believed to have involved either children who never existed or tax deductions improperly claimed by non-custodial parents.[[10]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#cite_note-10) In 1988, the threshold was lowered to two years old, and in 1990, the threshold was lowered yet again to one year old.[[11]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#cite_note-11) Today, an SSN is required regardless of the child’s age to receive an exemption.[_[citation needed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_ ] Since then, parents have often applied for Social Security numbers for their children soon after birth; today, it can be done on the application for a [birth certificate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_certificate).[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#cite_note-SSNChildren-12)
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/8 "2021-06-20T06:53:51Z")
I have a vague memory of my father taking me to the local Social Security Office to get me a number when I was a teenager back in the 1970s.
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### Author:  [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/9 "2021-06-20T13:01:07Z")
Same for me, but in the 50’s.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/10 "2021-06-20T13:08:20Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> I have a vague memory of my father taking me to the local Social Security Office to get me a number when I was a teenager back in the 1970s.
I recall filling out their form in ~1973 as a teen getting ready to get my first job (for a whopping $2.00/hour). I don’t recall ever dealing with an office. More like mail it in and the card came back in the mail.
OTOH, I may be conflating that with registering for the draft a couple years later as I approached graduation. Which IIRC consisted of simply filling out the form at the post office and turning it in, keeping the stub for yourself until something showed up in the mail later. Like “Greetings future Soldier!” :eek:
[aside]
While writing the above I first wrote “filling in the form” then changed it to “filling out the form”. Both are correct for the same idea: completing the form.
But “in” and “out” are pretty much antonyms and neither is similar to “complete”. English be weird an’ shit. 🙂
[/aside]
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/11 "2021-06-20T14:35:59Z")
Right. Part of it is, the SSN was _not_ created to be, and _legally still is not_, a universal citizen identification number. It was an account number for purposes of keeping track of the payroll tax and of the vested benefits under the Social Security sysyem, and then became a broader federal “taxpayer account number” to keep a consolidated track of your tax and employment status and of transactions with, or that are overseen by, the government. The states in turn were allowed to, and did, adopt it for similar purposes.
That is why as mentioned by others, many of us Boomer and early-brood GenX (and older) Dopers got our SSNs only when we sought our first jobs on a recorded payroll, since that was our first need for it on our own right.
(Aside: But then through the 1970s-80s a lot of states and localities and even private concerns began abusing the tool by adopting it as a de-facto “universal ID” (e.g. my college in the early 80s using it as student number and even the military adopting it as the “service number” for a good number of years). As the century turned and the internet expanded and ID theft became a major concern, there was a rollback of those practices.)
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/12 "2021-06-20T14:47:51Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> I have a vague memory of my father taking me to the local Social Security Office to get me a number when I was a teenager back in the 1970s.
> [@GaryM](#):
>
> Same for me, but in the 50’s.
Triple, but the 60s and it was my mom.
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### Author:  [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/13 "2021-06-20T14:47:53Z")
I got mine in the late 1970s, and proudly signed it with my new signature, as I had recently learned cursive, in pink felt-tip pen.
Which was a bit weird to show when I had to fill in forms for my first job at a fish & chips shop when I was 16.
I think I still have it, as I don’t think they made me turn it in when I changed my name for marriage.
Random piece of useless trivia. The middle two digits of my SSN are the reverse of my husband’s. It’s been noticed by a U.S. accountant or two.
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### Author:  [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/14 "2021-06-20T14:53:07Z")
There are a few people who make a point of living, or at least trying to live, without using an SSN. Either they never got one, or–if they have one–they try not to use it.
> **[Live happy life without social security number | Tulis Report](https://tntrafficticket.us/2019/12/live-happy-life-without-social-security-number/)**
>
> Matt Trewhella says that you can live a prosperous, happy life without social security numbers. Rev. Trewhella says he has an affidavit to help those who want to interact with government agencies without an SSN. The David Tulis case in Tennessee...
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/15 "2021-06-20T14:53:52Z")
> [@Die\_Capacitrix](#):
>
> The middle two digits of my SSN are the reverse of my husband’s.
The first three – at least used to – indicate which office you used to apply. When I was inducted into the navy the Disbursing Clerk – the people who pay us – who took my info had been doing it forever and had them pretty well memorized. He was making a game of telling you approximately where the office was. With me it was, “Orange county, California.”
“Santa Ana!”
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### Author:  [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/16 "2021-06-20T16:17:31Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> Because we applied at the same time, my sister and I have consecutive SSNs (i.e., only one digit apart).
My sister and I are the same. We got them in our tweens, I think, around 1960. My memory is that our parents applied for them without our participation, but I suppose I might have signed some paper at some point without remembering it now
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/17 "2021-06-20T16:21:02Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> e.g. my college in the early 80s using it as student number
Same here. I attended the University of Wisconsin-Madison in the 1980s, and our student ID numbers were our SSNs, with a single “control digit” appended to the end.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/18 "2021-06-20T16:57:22Z")
Similar story here. My siblings and I were born in the late 40s and early 50s. I don’t know when Dad applied to get SSNs for us, but we have four consecutive numbers.
I’ve been scheming for years how to defraud my elder brother and sisters, but haven’t yet figured out how to do so.
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### Author:  [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)
#### Post date: [June 20, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/19 "2021-06-20T17:00:59Z")
As for getting sequential numbers, my family is an extreme case of that. I come from a very large family and all of my brothers and sisters except my oldest brother have sequential numbers. Ten of us. My mom applied for all of us at once, with the youngest having the lowest number. I don’t remember exactly when it was, but I was about 10 or 11, so mid-60s. My oldest brother had already had a job, so he didn’t get included.
When I was in AF basic training, they used the initial of your last name plus the last 4 digits of your SSAN as a short hand ID number. This usually is not a problem, since it’s unlikely there’ll be duplication among the relatively small number of trainees in the squadron at any one time. But it does happen. To me, as it turned out. There was another guy in our sister flight who had the same as mine. I discovered this when I had to get my medical records from the office and they first gave me the other guy’s record.
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### Author:  [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)
#### Post date: [June 21, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-assigning-a-ssn-not-required/944671/20 "2021-06-21T14:21:25Z")
Similar story here. When my oldest brother started his first job, my mother took him to the Soc. Sec. office. She brought my 2 or 3 year old self along as well. The agent recommended she sign me up for a card also, so my brother and I have sequential numbers as well.
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