# US Government may forgive up to $3.5 Billion in student loans **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 9, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067 "2015-06-09T15:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/61 "2015-06-12T14:48:32Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Schools will raise tuition to what the market will bear. Increased availability of student loans increase the price that the market will bear. The obvious solution to me seems to be going the exact opposite way, which is to say providing cheap, public education opportunities on par with those of private unis in terms of educational value/“respect” for the degree/confidence that boasting such degrees means you know (some of) your shit. Of course, that would in effect amount to socializing college tuitions and involve tax hikes. Tax hikes to fund ungodly science and “impractical”, “worthless” liberal arts, too. I can smell the collective shitting of Fox bricks at the mere suggestion from here. But then again, maybe not - after all, the current government-sponsored student loans have to be financed already, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/62 "2015-06-12T17:12:45Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > So the big research Universities don’t do so much research now? > > I remember that the computer system was subject to immediate and unplanned down time because TVA was paying for immediate access to run their modelling programs. > > That is probably now done on a server i n a janitorial closet somewhere. Still being done, and they still need lots of computer power. I had a professor turn up his nose at our donated machines because our floating point performance wasn’t good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/63 "2015-06-12T17:16:45Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Ever wonder what college would cost if the US wasn’t handing out unlimited loans? Ever fill out a FAFSA form? The US is hardly handing out unlimited loans. > [@](#): > > I did 4 years of top-tier state university for about $10K tuition, fees, books. State schools are a lot more expensive now as the state has moved support from the taxpayer to the student. Still better than private universities, but not cheap. > [@](#): > > As long as US would loan the amount of the tuition, who cares what the number is? The person paying it back. > [@](#): > > In 1961, the family moved into a house which cost $12,000. > In 1986, I paid twice that for a car > > That same car now costs $50,000. > > Not everything can absorb that kind of inflation - and shiny new BS/BA holders are among those getting squeezed. If tuition was only going up at the rate of inflation, there would be a lot fewer complaints. It is going up a lot faster. Inflation makes it better. I had some student loans which got deferred until I got out of grad school. Thanks to the high inflation of the early 1980s they became trivial to pay off. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/64 "2015-06-12T20:06:33Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > That’s beside the point. [Firefighter exams exist](http://www.joinlafd.org/writtentestprep.html). > > Besides, who cares. What I’m really trying to understand is why you think giving tests is effectively banned. > > Two personal anecdotes. Apply to Dish and they will give you the [Wonderlic test](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test). And I was involved in some hiring at my old job. The position required knowledge of probability, statistics, and combinatorics. We gave candidates a written test on probability, statistics, and combinatorics. > > What exactly do you think is effectively banned and how would you fix it? [Here](http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/factemployment_procedures.html) is what the EEOC says about tests “If the selection procedure has a disparate impact based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, can the employer show that the selection procedure is job-related and consistent with business necessity? An employer can meet this standard by showing that it is necessary to the safe and efficient performance of the job. The challenged policy or practice should therefore be associated with the skills needed to perform the job successfully. In contrast to a general measurement of applicants’ or employees’ skills, the challenged policy or practice must evaluate an individual’s skills as related to the particular job in question.” This means that either the test not have a disparate impact, which seems to be impossible, or that the business has to prove the test measures solely job performance and is necessary. Any intelligence test that is still being administered by prospective employers is only being done because it has not been challenged in court yet. Tests such as the Dish one would be legal since the test is on statistics and the job involves doing statistics. Giving an intelligence test to find out who could be trained to do the job would be illegal. Since the context of this is replacing college and eighteen year old generally do not have alot of jobs skills, it is therefore illegal to use intelligence tests as a substitute for a college degree. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/65 "2015-06-13T00:35:34Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I believe it is written in to the language of student loan contracts that loans will be forgiven in certain circumstances, including if the college closes suddenly. I wouldn’t be surprised if a loss of accreditation is accounted for as well. I don’t think this is true, but I’m curious to find out. Do you have a cite for this - loan forgiveness if the college closes? > [@Kobal2](#): > > The obvious solution to me seems to be going the exact opposite way, which is to say providing cheap, public education opportunities on par with those of private unis in terms of educational value/“respect” for the degree/confidence that boasting such degrees means you know (some of) your shit. > > Of course, that would in effect amount to socializing college tuitions and involve tax hikes. Tax hikes to fund ungodly science and “impractical”, “worthless” liberal arts, too. I can smell the collective shitting of Fox bricks at the mere suggestion from here. But then again, maybe not - after all, the current government-sponsored student loans have to be financed already, somehow. I’m not sure this is a fully fleshed out idea, but I think of this similar to raising the minimum wage to a million dollars to make everyone rich. It just doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/66 "2015-06-13T02:17:08Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m not sure this is a fully fleshed out idea, but I think of this similar to raising the minimum wage to a million dollars to make everyone rich. It just doesn’t work that way. I 'unno, public education seems to work pretty well when you bother funding it and it’s not being administered by complete muppets :). Finland for example is consistently rated in the worldwide top 10 wrt education, yet according to wiki their public colleges have no tuition fees whatsoever and private schools are exceedingly rare. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/67 "2015-06-13T04:43:37Z")
Until Reagan became Governor, the University of California was: 1. One of the top university systems in the English-speaking world 2. Charged no tuition for in-State students It is not unprecedented in the US for the State government to pick up the tuition/fees. It probably have worked out better for both governments and students if the UofC had expanded instead of Corinthian to suck up loan money, ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/68 "2015-06-13T08:55:04Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I don’t think this is true, but I’m curious to find out. Do you have a cite for this - loan forgiveness if the college closes? Here you go: [https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/closed-school](https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/closed-school) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/69 "2015-06-13T16:26:04Z")
Thanks! Interesting - new information for me. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/70 "2015-06-13T18:04:26Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Until Reagan became Governor, the University of California was: > > 1. One of the top university systems in the English-speaking world > 2. Charged no tuition for in-State students > > It is not unprecedented in the US for the State government to pick up the tuition/fees. Huh. Interesting. Was that an exception made solely for UofC for whatever reason, or did the State also cover other universities ? Because if it’s the former, that reeks of Wrong IMO. It’d be the textbook definition of privilege (i.e. specific private entities enjoy special laws and status, for Reasons), and also fit the more pop-culture understanding of the word, that is to say “these are the most select, privileged young people in the nation… and we’re going to make it even easier for them !” > [@](#): > > It probably have worked out better for both governments and students if the UofC had expanded instead of Corinthian to suck up loan money, Either Corinthian is a bit of jargon I’m not familiar with, or this is some speech-to-text flubbery I can’t parse. Could you elucidamate, please ? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/71 "2015-06-13T19:47:17Z")
Corinthian Colleges just got shut down by the government for selling worthless degrees. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/72 "2015-06-14T00:22:02Z")
I was not in CA at the time, so do not know, but suspect all State supported schools were so subsidized. It was not a class distinction. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/73 "2015-06-14T11:26:18Z")
I believe the entire CA public education system, including community colleges, the mid-tier California State University system, and the top-tier University of California system were at one time fully subsidized. Even when I was a child, fees for community college were entirely nominal. The idea, of course, was that a better educated populace pays for itself with a vibrant economy. And looking at California history, it seems like it worked. It’s baffling to me why we tore down one of the things that made us great. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/74 "2015-06-14T14:11:39Z")
So we can have more bullet trains? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/75 "2015-06-14T15:34:05Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The idea, of course, was that a better educated populace pays for itself with a vibrant economy. And looking at California history, it seems like it worked. It’s baffling to me why we tore down one of the things that made us great. “I got mine, screw the rest of you” ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/76 "2015-06-14T16:55:14Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Until Reagan became Governor, the University of California was: > > 1. One of the top university systems in the English-speaking world > 2. Charged no tuition for in-State students Number 1 is stil true. Number 2 is [not true.](http://www.nytimes.com/1982/12/28/science/california-weighs-end-of-free-college-education.html) Reagan tried to raise tuition, but was unable to do so. Now, we have a Democratic Governor and a super-majority Democratic Legislature. Tuition is going up, not down. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/77 "2015-06-14T17:06:32Z")
Let’s also keep this in perspective. Being a Stanford guy, it pains me to sing the praises of Berkeley, but it’s hard to argue that the two are not, academically, in the same league. Still, Berkeley tuition is 1/3 that of Stanford. [Link.](http://colleges.startclass.com/saved_compare/Stanford-vs-UC-Berkeley) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/78 "2015-06-14T18:26:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let’s also keep this in perspective. Being a Stanford guy, it pains me to sing the praises of Berkeley, but it’s hard to argue that the two are not, academically, in the same league. Still, Berkeley tuition is 1/3 that of Stanford. [Link.](http://colleges.startclass.com/saved_compare/Stanford-vs-UC-Berkeley) Although most Stanford students aren’t paying that full tuition. If I understand the labels in [this table](http://facts.stanford.edu/academics/undergraduate-facts) correctly (and I may not, so check it yourselves), only a third haven’t received “aid toward cost.” While we know that students from households with income below $125k are not expected to have any parental contribution, that 2/3rd receiving aid also includes the guy who got a $100 scholarship, so it’s not the most useful number. And even the full-pay students have the total cost of their attendance subsidized by income from the endowment. I’ve not seen good numbers for how to break that down. A smaller percent of Stanford students graduate with debt than UC Berkeley students, but that debt is, on average, similar but slightly greater. > **[Loans](https://financialaid.berkeley.edu/types-of-aid-at-berkeley/loans/)** > > Used wisely, federal student loans can play a crucial role in education financing for UC Berkeley students. Learn the details about federal loans. > [@](#): > > Sixty-one percent of Berkeley undergraduate students who graduated between July 1, 2013 and June 30, 2014 graduated without loan debt (Federal Direct Subsidized/Unsubsidized Loans, Federal Perkins Loans, private loans). The average cumulative loan debt for graduating seniors was $17,584. > **[Despite defying national trends, students struggle with debt](https://stanforddaily.com/2012/12/05/despite-defying-national-trends-students-struggle-with-debt/)** > > Average of Stanford students graduating with debt decreases, but indebtedness increases > [@](#): > > [O]nly 25 percent of the class of 2012 graduating with debt. > […] > [T]he average indebtedness of Stanford graduates [was] $18,883 in 2012. Not the same year, so not the best comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/79 "2015-06-15T13:45:44Z")
“Any form of aid toward cost” includes subsidized loans. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067/80 "2015-06-15T15:18:42Z")
OK then I don’t think that’s the right line to look at, since I had actual tuition reduction in mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-government-may-forgive-up-to-3-5-billion-in-student-loans/722067.md?page=5)