# US Healthcare rant. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630 "2017-01-08T15:50:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/41 "2017-01-08T23:56:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If millions across the globe migrate for economic reasons why aren’t Americans voting with their feet? I don’t know if it’s “millions”, but a shitload of America do vote for their feet by seeking medical care in other countries. A couple of years ago, my mother flew to Mexico for oral surgery. She only had to pay $2K for the procedure. Here, it was $8K out of pocket. But most Americans don’t have the wherewithal to do something like this. They do the rational thing by making do with the medical providers in their immediate vicinity. If you feel like crap, you aren’t going to feel like traveling or doing a bunch of complicated decision-making. This is especially true if you’re in an emergency life/death situation. The people who are most negatively impacted by the American healthcare system are also the ones who can least afford to pick up and move somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/42 "2017-01-09T00:12:24Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The people who are most negatively impacted by the American healthcare system are also the ones who can least afford to pick up and move somewhere else. Also, those who are poor and sick have the least political influence. If I’m an uninsured cancer patient going bankrupt paying for chemotherapy, I probably don’t have a lot of leftover energy to go out protesting in the streets. Every penny they can scrape together is going to their medical costs. So it’s unlikely they’ll be donating to political campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/43 "2017-01-09T00:49:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If millions across the globe migrate for economic reasons why aren’t Americans voting with their feet? I’m not denying that the US health care system can use some fixing. I’m just puzzled that if millions of others migrate, even to the US to work, why don’t any Americans migrate for better services? Some of us do. I was born in New York, and lived the first 35 years of my life in the US, but I fled in 2006. One of the myriad of push/pull factors involved in making one of the biggest decisions in my life was definitely health care. I witnessed enough as my parents got old and sick; not for me, no thanks. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You ALL do, or is it like in the U.S. where only 50-something percent pay taxes? I can’t speak for other Europeans, but here in Ireland we pay one of the highest consumption tax rates (i.e. VAT) in the modern world at 23% on most non-essential goods. Even the Irish analogue of Reagan’s “welfare queen” would be chipping in a good bit of her dosh to the health care system. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/44 "2017-01-09T00:58:44Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Some of us do. I was born in New York, and lived the first 35 years of my life in the US, but I fled in 2006. One of the myriad of push/pull factors involved in making one of the biggest decisions in my life was definitely health care. I witnessed enough as my parents got old and sick; not for me, no thanks. > > I can’t speak for other Europeans, but here in Ireland we pay one of the highest consumption tax rates (i.e. VAT) in the modern world at 23% on most non-essential goods. Even the Irish analogue of Reagan’s “welfare queen” would be chipping in a good bit of her dosh to the health care system. There’s sales tax to varying degrees, property taxes would be folded into rent and sometimes there are use fees for stuff that used to be free (like parks or museums). ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/45 "2017-01-09T01:09:59Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > My mother went to the ER the day after Thanksgiving, and was admitted to the hospital that night for a one day stay. Under her insurance, she doesn’t have to pay for the ER if she’s admitted to the hospital, but if she is not admitted, she has to pay $50. Now, admittedly, this is small change compared to what other people have to pay. But her insurer is now telling her that she has to pay the $50 because she was not admitted to the hospital, she was only sent there for evaluation. She says she isn’t going to pay it. > > She actually has paperwork from the hospital which uses the word _admitted_. At one point in my life, I worked in a call center for Anthem Blue Cross/Blue Shield. What it sounds like with your mother is that she was there for a 23 hour observation, rather than a full admittance. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/46 "2017-01-09T05:06:27Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I can’t wait for all the conservatives here to flood in and calmly and rationally explain to the OP why he’s wrong and it’ll never ever work here and (s)he is a slave to their government and they’d be better off having more freedom and keeping more money. I’m a conservative, or I am on some issues anyway, and I think universal health care would be awesome, and yes, I know there would be more money taken out of my paycheck for it. Someone mentioned other social services (sorry forgot to multi-quote and can’t find the post to hand jam it) privatization of police, utterly terrifying privatization of fire fighters, in the US, if I have my history right, fire fighting started out this way, was a failure as a service and was eventually taken over by government. privatization of courts and prisons, In my state we tried the private prison thing, it was a disaster that ended in what seemed to me to be a very complicated “fine whatever just get out you’re fired” just to avoid the costs of a lengthy, litigious and expensive investigation of wrong doing on the part of the prison company. for the courts I can only see ruin and corruption if they were privatized. These are some of the activities that should be exclusively reserved to government officials and never ever considered for privatizing and I have no problems what ever with adding health care to that list. as has been said, the main core of the problem is the insurance companies and the political influence they wield ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/47 "2017-01-09T05:19:05Z")
The earliest reference I’ve seen to single-payer U.S. health care was a quote by FDR in 1932. I don’t see the issue being resolved 80 years from now, either. Is there anyone here who works for a health insurance company, preferably in a claims department, who would like to comment? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/48 "2017-01-09T05:33:55Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The earliest reference I’ve seen to single-payer U.S. health care was a quote by FDR in 1932. > > I don’t see the issue being resolved 80 years from now, either. > > Is there anyone here who works for a health insurance company, preferably in a claims department, who would like to comment? This [site](http://www.pnhp.org/facts/a-brief-history-universal-health-care-efforts-in-the-us) pushes it back to 1906-1915 with a bill from the AALL. IIRC, UHC was a plank in Teddy Roosevelt’s 1912 campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/49 "2017-01-09T06:11:09Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This fucking mind-numbing idiocy again? _Everyone in the USA who works pays taxes towards health care_. Federal payroll taxes may not be income taxes, but _everyone who works pays them_. No matter how shit your wage is, 6.2% of it is going to social security and, hey, big shocker, _medicare_. Here in Germany, I don’t make enough money yet to pay income tax either. I’m still losing about a fifth of my paycheck to my health insurance tax and my retirement insurance tax. > > I knew there would be stupid when I opened a thread to a post by D’Anconia. Can you maybe _try_ to turn on your brain next time, you semen-coated dunce cap? That 50% figure applies only to federal income taxes. Not state taxes. Not sales taxes. Not estate or property or luxury taxes. And not fucking FICA, you mental leper. I like the way you talk. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/50 "2017-01-09T07:14:35Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > To be fair, in the UK a lot of people are quite unhappy about those dirty immigrants getting health care. This is what I came to say, except including Europe to the UK. I don’t believe the answer is absolutely no, when there is such an issue with refugees. I agree it’s no when it’s a native, but that changes when it’s an immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/51 "2017-01-09T07:54:40Z")
Last year I had a chest pain scare, I was admitted to the hospital for observation. I was in for only one day to monitor my heart. The bill for the **one day** was **$8,600.00**. Again this was one day!! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/52 "2017-01-09T08:13:09Z")
To me, one of the most surreal (and, in this particular instance, painful) moments of being in these boards was hearing my sister in law rant about the mistreatment received by a certain Nile Fever patient whose illness, medical and paperwork troubles were chronicled in the Pit. There are things in which I will never agree with her, but she does take patient care very personally. Spitting nails, she was… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/53 "2017-01-09T08:17:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If millions across the globe migrate for economic reasons why aren’t Americans voting with their feet? Maybe they’re stuck here because they have bad feet and can’t afford to go to the podiatrist. Seriously, it might surprise you to find out people can be unhappy about one significant problem in America but still love the country and not want to leave it. Part of loving your country is wanting to make it better. A lot of people only remember the first half of the quote: _“My country, right or wrong.”_ But what Carl Schurz said was _“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”_ It’s a much better sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/54 "2017-01-09T08:20:57Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > It’s interesting looking at what different countries spend their money on. I believe the largest employer in the UK, and the thing they spend the most money on, is healthcare. In the US, the largest employer is the military, and that’s what we spend the most on. A while back I ran into an article which mentioned that high schoolers in Spain have a very high rate of “want to be a government worker” compared with the US. And I thought “ok, first, how was the question framed exactly? And second, does this guy realize how many jobs that in Spain are thought of as ‘working for the government’ aren’t seen so in the US?” Even our private clinics usually have some kind of charter with the government, making them part of the UHC system, and the mental default for “medical care” is the public network. I’ve been wondering if people in the US would think of being a cop or a soldier as working for the government; we do. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/55 "2017-01-09T08:28:41Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Last year I had a chest pain scare, I was admitted to the hospital for observation. I was in for only one day to monitor my heart. The bill for the **one day** was **$8,600.00**. Again this was one day!! The week before Xmas I saw a Doc in a public hospital clinic to address the rise in intraocular pressure in my eye. On Jan 3rd, I had a follow up appointment to see whether the drops etc were working. Today I had surgery on that eye. Tomorrow I will have a post-surgical followup and all being well, perhaps monthly checks for a while. I live in Australia. I am a ‘public patient’ (Medicare here) which means I pay a proportion of my income as a levee to fund the system. For me it costs app $500 per annum. I will not see a bill for any of the treatment above. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/56 "2017-01-09T10:05:22Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > It’s interesting looking at what different countries spend their money on. I believe the largest employer in the UK, and the thing they spend the most money on, is healthcare. In the US, the largest employer is the military, and that’s what we spend the most on. Actually I don’t think that is true for the US. Look at the third pie chart down at [this link](https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/). The federal spending on healthcare is greater than for the military. And yet, on top of that, people still need top cough up for insurance and out of pocket expenses and millions remain inadequately covered. We’ve made this point before but it keeps coming back. Compared to every other UHC first world country the USA government spends far more per capita on a system that doesn’t cover everyone, requires supplementary funding from individuals, is not free at the point of use and produces worse health outcomes. It is pretty much the definition of a broken system. The solution is conceptually simple. The working models are out there to choose from. The savings would be immense. The real stumbling block is one of cultural inertia and political will. If you have no visionary to change it then nothing will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/57 "2017-01-09T10:20:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You ALL do, or is it like in the U.S. where only 50-something percent pay taxes? I find it hard to believe that only 50% of people ever pay tax during their lifetime. Do you have a cite for that? And if you are suggesting that only 50% of the people are active taxpayers at any given moment…so what? Everyone will contribute what they can afford when they can afford it. When the police come to check on a house break-in they don’t demand to see a wage slip before investigating, the schools don’t send your kids home when you get laid off. The assumption is…and it is one that you work to whether you think it or not…that a basic provision of certain services are needed for a functioning society. Healthcare should be included in those services ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/58 "2017-01-09T11:09:41Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I find it hard to believe that only 50% of people ever pay tax during their lifetime. > Do you have a cite for that? > > And if you are suggesting that only 50% of the people are active taxpayers at any given moment…so what? Everyone will contribute what they can afford when they can afford it. > When the police come to check on a house break-in they don’t demand to see a wage slip before investigating, the schools don’t send your kids home when you get laid off. > > The assumption is…and it is one that you work to whether you think it or not…that a basic provision of certain services are needed for a functioning society. > > Healthcare should be included in those services Here’s one cite. 45.3% of U.S. households paid no individual Federal income tax for 2015. [https://www.google.com/amp/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/80875198-DB28-11E5-89D4-A2CD00F97721?client=lightning](https://www.google.com/amp/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/80875198-DB28-11E5-89D4-A2CD00F97721?client=lightning) ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/59 "2017-01-09T11:18:41Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I find it hard to believe that only 50% of people ever pay tax during their lifetime. > Do you have a cite for that? > > And if you are suggesting that only 50% of the people are active taxpayers at any given moment…so what? Everyone will contribute what they can afford when they can afford it. > When the police come to check on a house break-in they don’t demand to see a wage slip before investigating, the schools don’t send your kids home when you get laid off. > > The assumption is…and it is one that you work to whether you think it or not…that a basic provision of certain services are needed for a functioning society. > > Healthcare should be included in those services **Budget Player Cadet’s** answer to that the poster who’d put that up from earlier in the thread: > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This fucking mind-numbing idiocy again? _Everyone in the USA who works pays taxes towards health care_. Federal payroll taxes may not be income taxes, but _everyone who works pays them_. No matter how shit your wage is, 6.2% of it is going to social security and, hey, big shocker, _medicare_. Here in Germany, I don’t make enough money yet to pay income tax either. I’m still losing about a fifth of my paycheck to my health insurance tax and my retirement insurance tax. > > I knew there would be stupid when I opened a thread to a post by D’Anconia. Can you maybe _try_ to turn on your brain next time, you semen-coated dunce cap? That 50% figure applies only to federal income taxes. Not state taxes. Not sales taxes. Not estate or property or luxury taxes. And not fucking FICA, you mental leper. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630/60 "2017-01-09T11:25:48Z")
And even people who don’t pay federal income tax are paying other taxes and fees to the government. You can walk into DoT and say “since my income is below the poverty level, I think you should waive my exam fees”. DoT can say “well, we can refrain from charging fees, and you can refrain from taking the test.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-healthcare-rant/776630.md?page=4)