# US image worsens **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 2, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207 "2003-10-02T20:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/41 "2003-10-03T10:22:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adaher \* > Yeah, but no one else wants to kill us. What? !! Not only have the numbers of people who want to kill Americans increased but they are managing to kill Americans every day. > [@](#): > > [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle\_east/3159084.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3159084.stm) > > Attackers killed three American soldiers in separate bomb and gun attacks on Wednesday alone. > > “The enemy has evolved,” said Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, commander of US ground forces in Iraq. “It is a little bit more lethal, little bit more complex, little bit more sophisticated and in some cases a little bit more tenacious.” > > Speaking in Baghdad on Thursday, the general said that coalition forces had to expect continuing casualties. “We should not be surprised if one of these days we wake up to find there’s been a major firefight or a major terrorist attack,” he added. ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/42 "2003-10-03T10:32:17Z")
The actual study itself can be found [here](http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/24882.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/43 "2003-10-03T10:33:05Z")
\*\*What? !! Not only have the numbers of people who want to kill Americans increased but they are managing to kill Americans every day. \*\* Non-Muslims? Who? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/44 "2003-10-03T10:51:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David Simmons \* > \*\* > And anyway the argument isn’t that more troops were needed to win the war. It is that more troops, and civil affairs people, and so on are needed in the aftermath of the active combat. > \*\* Actually, according to military personel on the ground in Iraq, more troops would’ve helped them to’ve been able to secure more sites, (suspected weapons sites and records sites), as the war progressed. Since the banned weapons figured so prominently in the war, it’d’ve been nice if we could’ve thoroughly secured these things. Then there’re various civilian records taht help a country run in day to day affairs. If you couldn’t acces govt records, and you didn’t have you DL etc, how do you prove who you are, what you education level is etc. Apparently, many of these types of records were lost as well. These would make it easier to get Iraq to smooth running. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/45 "2003-10-03T11:00:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adaher \* > \*\* > The idea is that in the longterm Muslims are supposed to feel better about us because of the example of Iraqi democracy. > \*\* So increasing the number of people avaliable for likely recruitment into Qaeda type organizaions was part of the plan? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adaher \* > \*\* > I don’t think anyone expected our image to get better shortly after an invasion and deposing of their hero. > \*\* Do you have a cite that shows where _anybody_ considered Hussein a hero? Preferrably, you’d show that Muslims or Arabs considered Hussein a hero. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/46 "2003-10-03T11:00:44Z")
adaher, sorry, I misunterpreted your post. I believe anti-American sentiments have grown world-wide but, obviously, in some countries more than others. I do not think it is any consolation to the Americans being killed almost daily to think that they are not hated so much in other parts of the world. Reminds me of the Mexican song about Lupita who was very lucky on the day she was killed because of six shots she received only one happened to be deadly. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/47 "2003-10-03T11:07:19Z")
\*\*So increasing the number of people avaliable for likely recruitment into Qaeda type organizaions was part of the plan? \*\* That’s pure conjecture. **Do you have a cite that shows where anybody considered Hussein a hero? Preferrably, you’d show that Muslims or Arabs considered Hussein a hero.** Perhaps you weren’t watching coverage of the demonstrations in the West Bank, Jordan, and Syria? \*\*adaher, sorry, I misunterpreted your post. I believe anti-American sentiments have grown world-wide but, obviously, in some countries more than others. I do not think it is any consolation to the Americans being killed almost daily to think that they are not hated so much in other parts of the world. \*\* Well, American sentiment about many foreign countries has correspondingly gone downhill. I hope they address the root causes of our hate.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/48 "2003-10-03T11:59:28Z")
\>\> Well, American sentiment about many foreign countries has correspondingly gone downhill. I hope they address the root causes of our hate Ok, so the feeling is mutual. Do you think it is a good thing for America to be on bad terms with a great part of the world? After 9/11 the USA had the sympathy and goodwill of pretty much the entire world. This has been squandered by this government and reversed by its policies… ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/49 "2003-10-03T12:28:28Z")
I find these polls to be rather dubious…for two reasons: -none of the Arab countries are even close to democracies. Their national news organizations are heavily government influenced, so itis almost impossible for a citizen of these countries toget accurate news reports. For example, the Egyptian press is heavily censored, and editors who don’t go along risk heavy jail sentences. -despite the “negative” perception of the US, why do arabs (and muslims) WANT to emigrate to secular countries like the US and Canada? If they love sharia and the islamic lifestyle so much, how come they can’t wait to get away from it! No interliigent person, of any religion, WANTS to live in the 13th century! ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/50 "2003-10-03T13:01:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > \*\*I find these polls to be rather dubious…for two reasons: > -none of the Arab countries are even close to democracies. Their national news organizations are heavily government influenced, so itis almost impossible for a citizen of these countries toget accurate news reports. For example, the Egyptian press is heavily censored, and editors who don’t go along risk heavy jail sentences. From the article: > [@](#): > > The report finds that 15% of Indonesians now view the US favourably - down from 61% in 2002. > In the spring of 2003, only 1% of Jordanians took a favourable view of the US compared with 25% in the summer of 2002. > In March 2003 more than two thirds of Muslims in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Jordan saw the US as a greater threat than Iraq > 15% of Turks view the US favourably, down from 52% in 2000 You are saying this drop has nothing to do with actions by the USA and is solely caused by their own governments? Why would the government of Saudi Arabia try to convince their people that the USA is a greater threat than Iraq? Do you really think all those governments have been following a policy of stirring up anti-USA sentiments? Note that anti-American sentiment has also grown exponentially in Europe and other countries with all the freedom in the world. Are you telling me this has nothing to do with the actions of the US government? > [@](#): > > -despite the “negative” perception of the US, why do arabs (and muslims) WANT to emigrate to secular countries like the US and Canada? If they love sharia and the islamic lifestyle so much, how come they can’t wait to get away from it! No interliigent person, of any religion, WANTS to live in the 13th century! This is a straw man. Not all or even a majority of them want to emmigrate anywhere and many who do are forced by economic conditions not by love of western culture. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/51 "2003-10-03T13:02:42Z")
**Manhattan** , it isn’t just a PR-management problem, or it would be an easy fix. That attitude suggests a certainty of one’s rightness that isn’t derivable from the facts. The message that the war on Iraq is part of a war on terrorism has indeed been received, not only abroad but at home. The problem is that it’s been understood and recognized as bullshit by almost everyone but those professing it. Well, let me rephrase that a little - the problem for the current administration is that most people are more connected with reality than they and its reflexive cheerleaders are. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/52 "2003-10-03T13:06:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > **I find these polls to be rather dubious…for two reasons: > -none of the Arab countries are even close to democracies. Their national news organizations are heavily government influenced, so itis almost impossible for a citizen of these countries toget accurate news reports. For example, the Egyptian press is heavily censored, and editors who don’t go along risk heavy jail sentences.** The Jordanian government is sympathetic to, and allied to, the west. Therefore, the government-influenced news agencies there should be pro-western. Thus, by your argument, the plummeting lack of favour for the US in Jordan is _despite_ rather than _because_ of the news agencies. Care to explain? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/53 "2003-10-03T13:24:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*Actually, according to military personel on the ground in Iraq, more troops would’ve helped them to’ve been able to secure more sites, (suspected weapons sites and records sites), as the war progressed. Since the banned weapons figured so prominently in the war, it’d’ve been nice if we could’ve thoroughly secured these things. Then there’re various civilian records taht help a country run in day to day affairs. If you couldn’t acces govt records, and you didn’t have you DL etc, how do you prove who you are, what you education level is etc. Apparently, many of these types of records were lost as well. These would make it easier to get Iraq to smooth running. \*\* If you go back and read my post I think you will find that I was asking **manhattan** how an increase in the number of US troops during the war would have increased the number of Iraqi civilians killed. Even during the war there was some fear that we lacked the resources to safeguard out logistic routes in Iraq. As a matter of fact that might have been the case had the Iraqi army not disappeared early on taking their arms and ammunition with them. And yes, with more troops we might even have saved some of the antiquities in the museum, but that wasn’t the point of my statement. And, by the way, this is an incredible claim of yours: _“Since the banned weapons figured so prominently in the war …”_ All I can say is, Huh? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/54 "2003-10-03T15:16:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David Simmons \* > \*\* > And, by the way, this is an incredible claim of yours: _“Since the banned weapons figured so prominently in the war …”_ All I can say is, Huh? \*\* I think that they were mentioned pre-war. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/55 "2003-10-03T15:18:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adaher \* > \*\*\*\*So increasing the number of people avaliable for likely recruitment into Qaeda type organizaions was part of the plan? > \*\* > > That’s pure conjecture. > \*\* Actually, it’s a bit more than that. It’s expert opinion from Hutchins, Chariman of the National Intelligence Council. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/56 "2003-10-03T16:23:42Z")
**Not in anger** > [@](#): > > Why is this nonsense still being debated? I’m guessing Americans are a bit machochistic? What other reason could there be for re-hashing the same thing over and over again? Yes, I guess we all know Bush made a mistake. BUT ARE WE DONE DISSING AMERICANS? I’m sick and tired of these posts. Mainly posted by people jealous of the big USA. I like Americans and I really don’t see why they have to listen to all this crap. Cut it out, please. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/57 "2003-10-03T16:35:07Z")
Well, now we know where that “undisclosed location” is. Amsterdam. Who would’ve guessed? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/58 "2003-10-03T16:41:30Z")
Yeah, who, huh. And that from a leftie - socialist in Amsterdam. I wish some people grew up. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/59 "2003-10-03T16:49:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gum \* > Yes, I guess we all know Bush made a mistake. No, I guess too many people have not realized it yet. You can find a few in this thread. > [@](#): > > BUT ARE WE DONE DISSING AMERICANS? Who’s dissing Americans? You must have mistaken this thread for a different one. > [@](#): > > I’m sick and tired of these posts. Mainly posted by people jealous of the big USA. I like Americans and I really don’t see why they have to listen to all this crap. Feel free to skip them. You can go play in other threads. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207/60 "2003-10-03T16:53:32Z")
I will. I can’t believe you’re from Washington. Have you no pride in your country? Have fun dissing yourself. And all the best to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-image-worsens/205207.md?page=4)