# US intelligence fears Iran duped hawks into Iraq war **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306 "2006-09-03T18:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/1 "2006-09-03T18:22:49Z")
this is quotes from an 2004 article (Guardian) > [@](#): > > Some intelligence officials now believe that Iran used the hawks in the Pentagon and the White House to get rid of a hostile neighbour, and pave the way for a Shia-ruled Iraq. > > According to a US intelligence official, the CIA has hard evidence that Mr Chalabi and his intelligence chief, Aras Karim Habib, passed US secrets to Tehran, and that Mr Habib has been a paid Iranian agent for several years, involved in passing intelligence in both directions. > > “It’s pretty clear that Iranians had us for breakfast, lunch and dinner,” said an intelligence source in Washington yesterday. “Iranian intelligence has been manipulating the US for several years through Chalabi.” > > Larry Johnson, a former senior counter-terrorist official at the state department, said: “When the story ultimately comes out we’ll see that Iran has run one of the most masterful intelligence operations in history. They persuaded the US and Britain to dispose of its greatest enemy.” > > Mr Chalabi has vehemently rejected the allegations as “a lie, a fib and silly”. He accused the CIA director, George Tenet, of a smear campaign against himself and Mr Habib. > > However, it is clear that the CIA - at loggerheads with Mr Chalabi for more than eight years - believes it has caught him red-handed, and is sticking to its allegations. > > “The suggestion that Chalabi is a victim of a smear campaign is outrageous,” a US intelligence official said. “It’s utter nonsense. He passed very sensitive and classified information to the Iranians. We have rock solid information that he did that.” > **[US intelligence fears Iran duped hawks into Iraq war](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/may/25/usa.iraq10)** > > · Inquiry into Tehran's role in starting conflict · Top Pentagon ally Chalabi accused So what do you think? Was Iran heavily involved in the plan to invade Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/2 "2006-09-03T18:34:00Z")
It’s an interesting theory and we did discuss it a bit a few years ago. But. if it’s a legitimate theory, why no more current evidence of it? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/3 "2006-09-03T18:36:13Z")
But Chalabi SAID it was a lie, and silly, and if it’s true, it makes the Bush Administration look like a bunch of real chumps and patsies (not to mention all the people that voted for them. Twice.) so Chalabi’s statement is chock full of rich, tasty TRUTHINESS! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/4 "2006-09-03T19:05:27Z")
You can’t dupe a thirsty horse into drinking water. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/5 "2006-09-03T19:35:40Z")
Yeah…I promoted this story heavily when it came out. I wish we could hear more about it one way or the other. It may be one of those things that is hard to pursue when the same party controls the Presidency, the Senate, and the House. But, hey, even if it doesn’t turn out to be true, it would be nice to have something more definitive. As **Squink** noted though, if it is true, it was sort of like feeding candy to a baby…at least as far as selling it to the neoconservative elements was concerned. (What it might have done, however, is helped to give those neoconservatives the upper hand. World diplomacy makes strange bedfellows, I guess!) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/6 "2006-09-03T19:57:52Z")
> [@The Guardian](#): > > According to a US intelligence official, the CIA has hard evidence I hope it’s not just me that finds this phrase rather amusing, particularly given the context? ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/7 "2006-09-03T20:14:06Z")
International politics is hard to understand Theories comes and goes Anther theory (that contradict the on in the OP) is that Iran now are surrounded by US military bases. Before 1990 there non in the region. USA established military bases in both Kuwait and Saudi-Arabia early in the 90’s. Then in Caucasus in the 2000’s, and then Afghanistan - and finally in Iraq. There are now US army bases in both west, east and north of Iran. Does anyone have an overview over all the US military bases around the world? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/8 "2006-09-03T20:24:18Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] Anther theory (that contradict the on in the OP) is that Iran now are surrounded by US military bases. Before 1990 there non in the region. [/QUOTE] By that logic, the Cold War was fought against Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/9 "2006-09-03T20:32:12Z")
Per **Squink** ’s comment, I call bullshit on the whole thing. Sound like a lame excuse for the Bush admin. more than anything. We need more facts. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/10 "2006-09-03T20:35:15Z")
> **[DIA says Iran used INC to get US in Iraq?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=257550)** > > Be honest, who’d saw this twist coming? I don’t klnow if this is going to stand the tests of time or not. So far there’s not much about it. But it’s pretty wild if true. Agency: Chalabi group was front for Iran BY KNUT ROYCE WASHINGTON BUREAU May... ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/11 "2006-09-03T20:49:17Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] Per **Squink** ’s comment, I call bullshit on the whole thing. Sound like a lame excuse for the Bush admin. more than anything. We need more facts. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure how useful it would be as an excuse. Is it really better being fooled by Iran? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/12 "2006-09-03T21:13:09Z")
Then cherrypicking intelligence known to be faulty or even making shit up to deliberately go to war? Yeah, I’d say merely being duped would be. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/13 "2006-09-04T01:44:45Z")
Hmmm…I guess if this Administration’s best excuse is “We were just unwitting fools who allowed ourselves to be duped by the intelligence service of an enemy nation,” they are in more trouble than I thought! After all this is the administration that is still trying to sell itself as the party that is more serious and hard-headed about defending U.S. national security than the opposition party. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/14 "2006-09-04T01:50:25Z")
All the more reason that those dastardly Iranian mullahs should pay! Regime change becomes even more urgent! We can’t let them get away with it, or our heroes have died in vain! [cue Beach Boys] _Bomb, bomb, bomb Bomb bomb I-raaaaan! Bomb, bomb, bomb Bomb bomb I-raaaaan!.._ ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/15 "2006-09-04T02:07:14Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] It’s an interesting theory and we did discuss it a bit a few years ago. But. if it’s a legitimate theory, why no more current evidence of it? [/QUOTE] Who is going to investigate this? Assuming that it happened, which I have my doubts but lets assume for a second. Is Bush going to order an investigation? Of course not. If it came out that he was duped by the Iranians he will go down in history as the worst president, and hand Democrats power for the next 10 years. Is the CIA? No way. If we were duped they were responsible, and I doubt everyone there wants to be fired in disgrace. No, if we were duped by Iran everyone that has the power to find out would much rather not know that we were. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/16 "2006-09-04T03:02:50Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] You can’t dupe a thirsty horse into drinking water. [/QUOTE] Or, as WC said, you can’t cheat an honest man. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/17 "2006-09-04T18:23:24Z")
[QUOTE=treis] Who is going to investigate this? [/QUOTE] FBI counter espionage IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/18 "2006-09-04T18:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] Then cherrypicking intelligence known to be faulty or even making shit up to deliberately go to war? Yeah, I’d say merely being duped would be. [/QUOTE] I disagree. From YOUR perspective maybe, but you have to realize that Bush et al don’t see things in the same way you (or I or most Dopers) do. From THEIR perspective it wasn’t ‘cherrypicking intelligence’, and said intelligence was far from ‘known to be faulty’…nor do I think that THEY think they were ‘making shit up to deliberately go to war’. Remember that ‘cherrypicking’ is what ALL politicians do…its how they get elected after all, how they attack their opponents…its the life blood of the species in fact. I think getting fooled by Iran would be far worse, in their eyes to simply being wrong (with what they THINK is the best intelligence and consensus of the day). Otherwise, if they REALLY thought it would make them come off looking better we’d have been hearing about this for 2 years now. _Cups ear to listen to the choirous of 'Pubs chanting about how they were fooled__hears the chirping of crickets_. Nada…in 2 years. I’m not thinking they are running with the ‘We po’ ‘Pubs was just fooled by dem slick Iranian’s, cuss dem!’. I remember when this first came out there were a few threads on it. But as we’ve heard nothing on it since (that I know of), I’d have to go with the assessment that, while interesting, there is probably not much to this. Either that or Bush et al suddenly got really good at information supression. Would be a first for these fools if so, but who knows? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/19 "2006-09-04T19:16:45Z")
That a known con man and crook with a rap sheet a kilometer long and decades old is a probable double agent is hardly surprising. What is surprising is the boggling level of corn fed American stupidity TO 1: Believe a hard core con man Chalabi in the first place 2: Now believe this is some diabolical master plan by the Iranians to have the American military placed throughout their sphere of influence I swear sometimes I think we have to be the biggest, most arrogant intelligence and foreign policy retards that have ever existed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306/20 "2006-09-04T19:35:32Z")
It’s easy to believe someone telling you something you _want_ to be true. Unfortunately. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-intelligence-fears-iran-duped-hawks-into-iraq-war/371306.md?page=2)