# US - Israel common cause? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 20, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787 "2003-03-20T12:49:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/1 "2003-03-20T12:49:42Z")
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle\_east/2852299.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2852299.stm) interesting article here, states that the way Israel handles the Palestinian conflict (with pre-emptive strikes, and personal assassinations), has helped define the way the Bush administration is handling their ME conflict now… last paragraph of article: Peace by force What seems clear now is that Israel and the US increasingly have the same approach to dealing with conflict: one based on force and deterrence, rather than diplomacy and international law. And here Akiva Eldar thinks there is a direct connection. He says key policy advisors around George Bush do see America’s battle with Iraq and Israel’s battle with the Palestinians as part of the same war. “They have actually suggested that Israel will help the United States to take over the Middle East,” he says. “They were sitting in think tanks that believed that you don’t even try to appease or satisfy the Arabs, you reach peace by force which means you impose it… you don’t make concessions to people you don’t trust, and that puts them and Sharon in the same party.” That is a controversial view, one which few Israelis or Americans would accept. But it is one which may be strengthened by a US strike against Iraq, at least in the eyes of Arabs and Muslims. what do you think? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/2 "2003-03-20T13:12:07Z")
I quite agree. [Further reading](http://www.newamericancentury.org/Bushletter-040302.htm) from Bush’s most influential think-tank. > [@](#): > > In particular, we want to commend you for your strong stance in support of the Israeli government as it engages in the present campaign to fight terrorism. As a liberal democracy under repeated attack by murderers who target civilians, Israel now needs and deserves steadfast support. This support, moreover, is essential to Israel’s continued survival as a free and democratic nation, for only the United States has the power and influence to provide meaningful assistance to our besieged ally. And with the memory of the terrorist attack of September 11 still seared in our minds and hearts, we Americans ought to be especially eager to show our solidarity in word and deed with a fellow victim of terrorist violence. > > No one should doubt that the United States and Israel share a common enemy. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/3 "2003-03-20T13:30:38Z")
mmm, and the Bush administration has just granted 1 billion US dollars in aid to Israel. well, aid… 'tis mainly military aid… :mad: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/4 "2003-03-20T14:36:54Z")
Plus US$9 billion in loan guarantees, takes it to a cool [US$10 billion](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2867619.stm). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/5 "2003-03-20T15:14:34Z")
By the way, check out the army chicks on that link I posted. :dubious: HellO. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/6 "2003-03-20T17:29:18Z")
oi, i’m no dude missa female… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/7 "2003-03-20T17:31:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfje \* > \*\*What seems clear now is that Israel and the US increasingly have the same approach to dealing with conflict: one based on force and deterrence, rather than diplomacy and international law. > > He says key policy advisors around George Bush do see America’s battle with Iraq and Israel’s battle with the Palestinians as part of the same war. \*\* Well no shit. Maybe because the militants fighting for Palestine have made every effort to tell us that. Saddam himself has taken every opportunity to tell us that. That’s kind of the basic disagreement we have with terrorists - that we’re part of a “war” that began before Bush even took office, and we find it all quite lacking in things like diplomacy and international law. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/8 "2003-03-20T17:50:18Z")
There’s a hell of a lot of antisemitic rhetoric thrown about by Palestinian terror groups, but I had always seen the conflict as primarily a territorial dispute. The support Palestinian terrorists get from other Israel-haters doesn’t change this; the world of terrorism and allegiances is murky - the IRA trained in Libya, and had Lebanese connections, but I don’t think you’d lump them in with Bin Laden and so on… or would you? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfje \* > \*\*oi, i’m no dude > > missa female… > > 😃 \*\* As long as you’re not Jar Jar Binks. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/9 "2003-03-20T18:04:19Z")
I wonder what Israel will do if, after we get rid of Saddam, the US pours as much if not more monetary and military support to Iraq? All the Arabs want is equality of treatment some bit of dignity. I think helping to support a Muslim nation like Iraq would be just the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/10 "2003-03-20T18:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\*I wonder what Israel will do if, after we get rid of Saddam, the US pours as much if not more monetary and military support to Iraq? All the Arabs want is equality of treatment some bit of dignity. I think helping to support a Muslim nation like Iraq would be just the ticket. \*\* The US already pours a lot of aid into Arab countries in the area. I don’t know if it is enough to qualify as “equality of treatment and dignity”, but it does amount to billions of dollars … Egypt is the second-largest recepient of military $ after Israel. [http://216.26.163.62/2003/ss\_policy\_02\_04.asp](http://216.26.163.62/2003/ss_policy_02_04.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-israel-common-cause/162787/11 "2003-03-20T18:34:30Z")
**jjimm** : Of course it’s a territorial dispute. Which territory - the West Bank and Gaza? Understandable. The whole of Palestine that they want Jews removed from? That’s just obscene. I’m talking about the US dispute with Arab militants. Stand in the way of that and you’re targeted for jihad. SH explains: [President Saddam Hussein’s Message to the Urgent Arab Summit Conference, Cairo 21-22/October/2000](http://www.uruklink.net/mofa/president/enew37.htm) > [@](#): > > Iraq’s stand in this issue has been obvious for a long time. We reiterate it here now. If he who represents Iraq in any Arab or non-Arab gathering, whether official or popular, ignores the stand of his people in Iraq, he will be like one ignoring the will of this truthful, loyal and striving people, besides ignoring the principles on which the Glorious 17-30 July Revolution was founded after this great people had sacrificed lines and lines of martyrs and wounded before the altar of its march. We do not think that any honourable person among the whole of our Arab nation ignores this stand or denies it. > > \ > > On the basis of this, and as an expression of the conscience of the nation and the people, the manifest stand of Iraq is the call and endeavour to liberate Palestine through jihad. For jihad alone is capable of liberating Palestine and the Arab lands occupied by the filthy Jews in their freak Zionist entity. Jihad through fighting is the right description and the firm basis for him who trusts in Allah and endeavours to liberate Palestine with all that supports and facilitates his mission in all its aspects and to the depth of its mobilization. Any other description will remain short of restoring Palestine, the whole of Palestine, releasing al-Quds and its Mosque from captivity and liberating the other occupied Arab lands. Our saying that any other description of jihad save that of fighting the band of evil in Palestine and inflicting defeat upon them, will fall short of the mark as it is but a softened description of any other alternative… > > \ > > We, in Iraq, say that the Arabs are capable of following a policywhich will make America turn away from its biase support of the Zionist entity at the expense of the Arabs. This policy will be supported by the policy of mobilizing potentials and capabilities and alerting and organizing eagerness on the road of jihad for liberation. It is not the policy of lowering themselves before America and getting along with it. When will that be possible? It will be possible when the Arabs harmonize with themselves and with their principles, when their insistence on liberation becomes manifest and when they meet harm with harm on the doctrine of eye for eye, tooth for tooth and wounds equal for equal. When America chooses as it does now to harm the Arabs through its bias to the Zionist entity, and when the Arabs decide not to secure for America its interests and to neglect its views and stop any cooperation with it in all fields, or in certain fields, America then will change its stand-- and it will change it in a short time. I’m not overly apologetic for standing in the way of their idea of “liberating Palestine.” Yes, certain factions can definitely be lumped together but I’m not really sure which ones…does it matter? If two or more decide to wage war on us specifically and cite the very same reasoning for it, seems to me we’re going to treat them alike.