# US Journalists held in North Korea Freed
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 4, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344 "2009-08-04T21:50:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/1 "2009-08-04T21:50:00Z")
Bill Clinton has succeeded in getting Laura Ling and Euna Lee freed from their 12-year sentence in North Korea.
Story here: [North Korea Orders Release Of Euna Lee, Laura Ling During Clinton Visit](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/04/north-korea-welcomes-bill_n_250682.html)
The question for discussion is does this help the Obama administration, or do nothing at all?
Mods - This thread’d probably end up here anyway.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/2 "2009-08-04T21:53:54Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#):
>
> Bill Clinton has succeeded in getting Laura Ling and Euna Lee freed from their 12-year sentence in North Korea.
>
> Story here: [North Korea Orders Release Of Euna Lee, Laura Ling During Clinton Visit](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/04/north-korea-welcomes-bill_n_250682.html)
>
> The question for discussion is does this help the Obama administration, or do nothing at all?
>
> Mods - This thread’d probably end up here anyway.
Clinton pals around with dictators!
It makes the Clinton fans squeal, it saved those ladies, it doesn’t look like the administration was engaging in talks with a “rogue nation”. I’d say this is good for everyone. Except the republicans, of course.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/3 "2009-08-04T21:57:33Z")
So Clinton’s 62. Figure he’s got ~20 years left in him. Any chance he’ll end up in the same boat as Carter with the somewhat derisive desciptor “Excellent _former_ President” ?
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### Author:  [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/4 "2009-08-04T22:00:32Z")
Who better to send to pick up a couple ladies than Clinton?
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### Author:  [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/5 "2009-08-04T22:02:58Z")
I’m waiting for the inevitable spin by Republicans, either dismissing the success as unimportant, or decrying the act as a show of America’s weakness. After all, a self respecting and strong nation doesn’t talk to North Korea, it bombs them off the face of the Earth. That’ll learn 'em.
Seriously, I consider this a feather in the cap of democratic diplomacy we may reap dividends from for at least the near future.
Good job, Bill.
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### Author:  [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/6 "2009-08-04T23:06:48Z")
Clearly, this is good news for the McCain campaign.
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### Author:  [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/7 "2009-08-04T23:41:00Z")
I wonder if BC went there to give some money to Kim…I wouldn’t bet against that.
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### Author:  [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/8 "2009-08-04T23:51:14Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#):
>
> I’m waiting for the inevitable spin by Republicans, either dismissing the success as unimportant, or decrying the act as a show of America’s weakness.
[http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHj0rARiWVv4Jwy1z9FP9AHkYYvw](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHj0rARiWVv4Jwy1z9FP9AHkYYvw)
**Bill Clinton rewarding NKorea for bad behavior**
> [@](#):
>
> The Obama administration is rewarding North Korea for its bad behavior by sending ex-president Bill Clinton to Pyongyang to win the release of two US journalists, [John Bolton] the former US ambassador to the UN said Tuesday…
>
> …“It comes perilously close to negotiating with terrorists,” Bolton told AFP when asked about Bill Clinton’s trip to secure the release of journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee.
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### Author:  [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/9 "2009-08-04T23:52:55Z")
For such a good outcome, this sure degraded quickly to (one-sided) partisan sniping.
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/10 "2009-08-05T00:43:13Z")
The White House was very quick to distance themselves from Clinton’s trip by insisting that it was a “private mission”. They should derive no benefit from it. They should not be chastised for it either. Bolton should shut up.
KRM
Republican
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### Author:  [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/11 "2009-08-05T00:45:25Z")
This is why Bill Clinton was such a good president. It appears he basically sat down, and with the face of a sincere apologetic person uttered pure bullshit about how sorry he was they broke NK law and how amazingly good of Il it would be to them go. Journalists returned, without a single bullet. Genius.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/12 "2009-08-05T00:49:24Z")
> [@KRM](#):
>
> The White House was very quick to distance themselves from Clinton’s trip by insisting that it was a “private mission”.
And you’re taking that at face value? You think Bill Clinton just hopped on a jet and went to North freaking Korea to negotiate for hostages without talking to, say, the State Department lead by his wife? Or the president? _Come on._
We don’t know what, if anything, Clinton might have said or offered to get these women freed. But that said, it’s hard to see a downside for anybody here. Bolton aside, most Republicans are going to be happy Ling and Lee are coming home. The situation got resolved and the administration handled it properly as far as I can tell.
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/13 "2009-08-05T00:53:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> So Clinton’s 62. Figure he’s got ~20 years left in him.
One hopes so; we don’t really have any other former Presidents with the health and stamina for this sort of mission (assuming the objective is to resolve rather than exacerbate a crisis).
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### Author:  [@Jerseyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerseyman)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/14 "2009-08-05T00:53:30Z")
Yes, looks like Obama is behaving like a grown-up for a change. _Of course_ it was a _private mission_ that Clinton never told the White House about (even through his wife) and _of course_ being private, Kim Jong-Il was just so impressed by Bill’s charisma that he gave in immediately 😃
This is what _diplomacy_ is all about, getting what you want in a way to make the other side feel good about themself and more inclined to deal with you in future instead of screaming contest.
Imagine Bush’s reaction. He might have left them to rot, or organised some massive raid endangering any number of lives, the first being the people he was using to boost his own _struttismo_.
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### Author:  [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/15 "2009-08-05T01:04:08Z")
The Republican talking point, via my dad:
“Hillary is the Secretary of State, she’s supposed to take care of it. I can’t believe how worthless she is at her job, having to send in her husband to take care of something for her.”
_Sigh._
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/16 "2009-08-05T01:31:56Z")
I heard the young ladies were so thankful toward Bill Clinton that they got down on their knees and… no, can’t go there.
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/17 "2009-08-05T01:45:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> And you’re taking that at face value? You think Bill Clinton just hopped on a jet and went to North freaking Korea to negotiate for hostages without talking to, say, the State Department lead by his wife? Or the president? _Come on._
>
> We don’t know what, if anything, Clinton might have said or offered to get these women freed. But that said, it’s hard to see a downside for anybody here. Bolton aside, most Republicans are going to be happy Ling and Lee are coming home. The situation got resolved and the administration handled it properly as far as I can tell.
No. My default position is not that the White House Press Secretary is a liar. He may very well be but I wouldn’t assume that he is.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/18 "2009-08-05T02:04:40Z")
> [@KRM](#):
>
> My default position is not that the White House Press Secretary is a liar.
That’s too bad, because “liar” is pretty much the job description. 😉 But this isn’t about Robert Gibbs anyhow, it’s just a question of common sense. The idea that Clinton went over there without anybody’s approval and without some careful coordination is absurd. [A little analysis from the New York Times:](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/world/asia/05korea.html?hp)
> [@](#):
>
> But the initiative was cloaked in secrecy and came after weeks of back-channel talks between the United States and North Korea through its United Nations mission. In addition to Mr. Gore, the White House’s list of potential candidates included Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico, who negotiated with North Korea during the Clinton administration, and Stephen W. Bosworth, the current special envoy on North Korea.
> […]
> Given Mr. Clinton’s stature and his long interest in the North Korean nuclear issue, experts said it was likely that his discussions in North Korea ranged well beyond obtaining the release of Ms. Ling and Ms. Lee.
Elsewhere they comment that he probably wouldn’t have even gone to North Korea in the first place if they had not agreed in advance to release the women. These things are carefully choreographed and not done accidentally.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/19 "2009-08-05T02:11:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> So Clinton’s 62. Figure he’s got ~20 years left in him. Any chance he’ll end up in the same boat as Carter with the somewhat derisive desciptor “Excellent _former_ President” ?
Well, considering that I don’t regard Carter as a particularly good ex-President, I think Clinton has him easily beat already. No derision from me. And this particular bit of diplomacy works just fine - no griping from me.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-journalists-held-in-north-korea-freed/505344/20 "2009-08-05T02:15:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> So Clinton’s 62. Figure he’s got ~20 years left in him. Any chance he’ll end up in the same boat as Carter with the somewhat derisive desciptor “Excellent _former_ President” ?
Well, in my opinion at least, there are two significant differences between them: Jimmy Carter is a much better _person_; Bill Clinton is a much better _politician_.
That said, Carter and Clinton have both taken full advantage of their fame to accomplish their particular goals, and both have done so very effectively.
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