US Law Dopers: Is J.D. a doctorate?

[Rumor_Watkins]

@Tom_Tildrum

In the US, a JD fulfills the role of a doctorate in one sense: with it, one can become a professor of law at a university.

not true.

there are many “law professors” who do not possess JDs or similar law degrees

it fulfills the role of a doctorate in the sense: it is not a masters-level degree. where the distinction is recognized, it is labeled properly as a “first professional” degree but since “first professional” degree really isn’t known as a “grade” of degree (like bachelor’s, masters, doctorate) in situations where that sort of things matter, it has to get slotted somewhere. it has been decided that it is not to be slotted in as a master’s degree, so it becomes a doctorate almost by default.

[ENugent]

@Rumor_Watkins

you can’t get either without having a B.A.
and certain PhD programs do not grant a Master’s degree along the way, so it’s the only other degree you have past the B.A. - same with a J.D.

Yup. I have an SB, a PhD, and a JD. No Master’s.

The distinction that I see between my degrees is that you get a JD pretty much for doing classwork. There was one research paper not associated with any class, but overall, it was pass classes = get degree. For a PhD, you must have independent accomplishments. I don’t know of anyone with a PhD who didn’t have at least a year of taking no classes, just doing research and writing the dissertation.

[Saint_Cad]

@Rumor_Watkins

it fulfills the role of a doctorate in the sense: it is not a masters-level degree. where the distinction is recognized, it is labeled properly as a “first professional” degree but since “first professional” degree really isn’t known as a “grade” of degree (like bachelor’s, masters, doctorate) in situations where that sort of things matter, it has to get slotted somewhere. it has been decided that it is not to be slotted in as a master’s degree, so it becomes a doctorate almost by default.

Who decided? The individual program? The college? The American Council on Education? Can any university call any program it wants a first professional degree and thence a doctorate?

The standard is that a doctorate is the terminal degree in a field. Period. To call a degree a “first” professional degree

1. Implies there is a second professional degree and is therefore not a doctorate
2. Is the role traditionally filled by a master’s degree.

Here is the criteria I will use when I rule the world. Does the degree require a master’s degree or equivalent? If no, then it ain’t a doctorate no matter what you call it. The only exception is an MD because (as I’ve said before) they follow up their degree with a residency that is their doctoral work.

[Spoons]

@Tom_Tildrum

In the US, a JD fulfills the role of a doctorate in one sense: with it, one can become a professor of law at a university. Northern Piper, if you’re still here, is that similarly true of an LLB in Canada? Can you teach law with just that degree, or is some higher degree required?

The question wasn’t directed at me, but I’ll take a shot.

As I recall my own law school experience, there were a few instructors who only had an LL.B (and a Bachelor’s degree as well). They tended to be sessional instructors who were specialists in their field, and they taught the subject of their field: a corporate lawyer taught Corporations Law, an insurance company lawyer taught Insurance Law, and so on. To the best of my knowledge, none had an LL.M., and none had an office in the school. They simply came in once or twice a week, lectured, and left. I assume they also set and marked their course’s exams, but that didn’t have to be done onsite. Certainly, none would be called “Professor”–we called them either by their first name, or “Mr./Ms. Blank” on more formal occasions.

Those faculty members who did have LL.M.s (and other higher law and other degrees) tended to teach the core 1L courses, plus whatever other ones they wanted to. They also led the seminars, supervised the papers, and dealt with the graduate students’ academics. Of course, they had offices in the school and spent most of their days there, rather than working at another employer’s. These were the folks who were called “Professor.”

So the answer to your question, Tom, based on my experience, is that an LL.B. can teach in a faculty of law if (a), they have spent years specializing in an area; and (b), they only teach that area. But regardless of the fact that they teach in the law school, they’re not “Professors” without being a full member of the faculty who has an LL.M.

[DSYoungEsq]

@AK84

All doctorate degree are post bacc. The point is that a JD is a first law degree, in other words the first degree anyone who wishes to practice as a lawyer has to complete.

This statement is incorrect.

A J.D. candidate is required by most schools to have completed a B.A. or B.S. before enrolling for the J.D.

And as someone before this said, to compare a Ph.D., an M.D., and a J.D. is to compare apples to oranges to lawn chairs.

I have a teacher colleague here at the school I teach in who has his Ph.D. in one of the sciences. He insists upon calling me Dr. Young, because of my J.D. I shake my head and sigh everytime he does it; I’ve never thought that a J.D. entitles one to be called “doctor” as an honorific. To me, that means one of two things: a Ph.D., or a person who fulfills the role of a doctor, that is, a medical professional who engages in treatment of patients. Thankfully, I am neither.
The state of South Carolina, btw, places me in the “masters degree” category for determining which teaching classification to use for salary purposes. I’m quite comfortable with that equivalency.

[Alan_Smithee]

@Saint_Cad

Who decided? The individual program? The college? The American Council on Education? Can any university call any program it wants a first professional degree and thence a doctorate?

The standard is that a doctorate is the terminal degree in a field. Period. To call a degree a “first” professional degree

1. Implies there is a second professional degree and is therefore not a doctorate
2. Is the role traditionally filled by a master’s degree.

Here is the criteria I will use when I rule the world. Does the degree require a master’s degree or equivalent? If no, then it ain’t a doctorate no matter what you call it. The only exception is an MD because (as I’ve said before) they follow up their degree with a residency that is their doctoral work.

This would eliminate a sizable number of PhD programs that don’t award master’s degrees and don’t require them for admission. Lots of people go from bachelor’s to PhD. And what’s the “second professional” degree for a phsycian? For an optometrist? For a psychologist? What master’s degree traditionally filled the role of an MD or a JD? What about a DMin, the only “post-professional” or “second professional” degree I’m aware of, and a terminal degree requiring a previous master’s, but nowhere near the rigor of any PhD program?

[Saint_Cad]

@Alan_Smithee

This would eliminate a sizable number of PhD programs that don’t award master’s degrees and don’t require them for admission. Lots of people go from bachelor’s to PhD. And what’s the “second professional” degree for a phsycian? For an optometrist? For a psychologist? What master’s degree traditionally filled the role of an MD or a JD? What about a DMin, the only “post-professional” or “second professional” degree I’m aware of, and a terminal degree requiring a previous master’s, but nowhere near the rigor of any PhD program?

If you want to put the Ph.D. up on a pedestal that no other program can reach or take the opposite extreme that any program that has a doctorate in its name is doctoral level, that’s fine.

But a few points. Ph.D. is considered a degree in research. That is why they wear dark blue no matter the field of study. To compare a professional degree to it is simply not the same. I can turn around and somehow rate an Ed.D. higher than a Ph.D. because you do not have as much PRACTICE in the field as I do since your work was all ivory tower research. The point is that they are two equivalent degrees with different areas of concentration. And rigor? Hah. I could go online and have an accredited Ph.D. with very little rigor. As I have pointed out, it is dependent on the degree PROGRAM and not the degree NAME.

Also, just because a field does not have a third-level (Ph.D. equivalent) degree shouldn’t mean that they can call their terminal degree a doctorate. It is a master’s degree and if you need to be called doctor, go online and pay for a Ph.D. with little work involved.

Here’s what the US Department of Education has to say about it.

First-professional degrees represent a category of qualifications in professional subject areas that require students to have previously completed specified undergraduate coursework and/or degrees before enrolling. They are considered graduate-level programs in the U.S. system because the follow prior undergraduate studies, but they are in fact first degrees in these professional subjects. Holders of first-professional degrees are considered to have an entry-level qualification and may undertake graduate study in these professional fields following the award of the first-professional degree. Several of these degrees use the term “doctor” in the title, but these degrees do not contain an independent research component or require a dissertation (thesis) and should not be confused with PhD degrees or other research doctorates. (emphasis added)
A first-professional degree is an award that requires completion of a program that meets all of the following criteria: (1) completion of the academic requirements to begin practice in the profession; (2) at least 2 years of college work prior to entering the program; and (3) a total of at least 6 academic years of college work to complete the degree program, including prior required college work plus the length of the professional program itself.

All first-professional degree programs are closely regulated by recognized professional and specialized accrediting agencies. See Accreditation and Quality Assurance.
FIRST-PROFESSIONAL DEGREE TITLES

First-professional degrees may be awarded in the following 10 fields:

Doctor of Chiropractic (D.C. or D.C.M.)
Doctor of Dental Science (D.D.S.) or Doctor of Dental Medicine (D.M.D.)
Doctor of Jurisprudence or Juris Doctor (J.D.)
Doctor of Medicine (M.D.)
Doctor of Optometry (O.D.)
Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine/Osteopathy (D.O.)
Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.)
Doctor of Podiatric Medicine/Podiatry (D.P.M., D.P., or Pod.D.)
Master of Divinity (M.Div.), Master of Hebrew Letters (M.H.L.) or Rabbinical Ordination (Rav)
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (D.V.M.).

The research doctorate, or the Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) and its equivalent titles, represents the highest academic qualification in the U.S. education system. While the structure of U.S. doctoral programs is more formal and complex than in some other systems, it is important to note that the research doctorate is not awarded for the preliminary advanced study that leads to doctoral candidacy, but rather for successfully completing and defending the independent research presented in the form of the doctoral dissertation (thesis).
RESEARCH DOCTORATE DESCRIPTION

U.S. doctorates are structured programs of advanced study and supervised research. Students admitted to doctoral programs must complete all qualifying graduate-level coursework and participate in doctoral seminars and colloquia. No coursework is credited toward the doctoral program unless it is doctoral-level and part of the research seminar and colloquia preparation for advancement to candidacy. Students who complete these preliminary requirements at a satisfactory level (usually an A average grade is required) must then pass written comprehensive examinations that cover their chosen research specialization plus two or more adjunct specialties, one of which is often in a related subject area. Successful students who pass the examinations and receive the recommendation of the doctoral faculty are advanced to candidacy for the doctorate.

Some U.S. graduate students’ transcripts may show that undergraduate courses were completed in subjects such as languages, quantitative methods or a second subject, particularly if the student entered pre-doctoral studies from the bachelor’s degree level, is undertaking interdisciplinary studies, or is changing subjects. It is important to know, however, that U.S. accreditation rules do not allow such undergraduate credit to be counted toward graduate studies. Only if undergraduate courses are taken for graduate credit – requiring additional work – and are certified as such by the graduate faculty will an award of credit be considered.

The doctoral candidate selects a doctoral dissertation advisor and doctoral committee (usually 2-5 senior faculty, frequently with at least one member from another subject area or university). The advisor and committee approve the dissertation research proposal and are available to advise on the progress of the independent research program. When the candidate and the advisor judge that the research is completed and the dissertation is finished, the candidate is scheduled for a public oral examination defending the dissertation. At the conclusion of the oral defense, the dissertation committee votes on whether to award the doctorate and sign the dissertation, which is then published via university printing services and made available electronically for the academic community. Many dissertations are later revised, edited, and published commercially as academic monographs.

RESEARCH DOCTORATE DEGREE TITLES

NOTE: This is the list of frequently awarded research doctorate degree titles accepted by the National Science Foundation (NSF) as representing degrees equivalent in content and level to the Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) degree.

Doctor of Arts (D.A.)
Doctor of Business Administration (D.B.A.)
Doctor of Church Music (D.C.M.)
Doctor of Canon Law (J.C.D./D.C.L.)
Doctor of Design (D.Des.)
Doctor of Education (Ed.D.)
Doctor of Engineering (D.Eng./D.E.Sc./D.E.S.)
Doctor of Fine Arts (D.F.A.)
Doctor of Hebrew Letters (D.H.L.)
Doctor of Industrial Technology (D.I.T.)
Doctor of Juridical Science (J.S.D./S.J.D.)
Doctor of Music (D.M.)
Doctor of Musical/Music Arts (D.M.A.)
Doctor of Music Education (D.M.E.)
Doctor of Modern Languages (D.M.L.)
Doctor of Nursing Science (D.N.Sc.)
Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.)
Doctor of Public Administration (D.P.A.)
Doctor of Physical Education (D.P.E.)
Doctor of Public Health (D.P.H.)
Doctor of Sacred Theology (S.T.D.)
Doctor of Science (D.Sc./Sc.D.)
Doctor of Social Work (D.S.W.)
Doctor of Theology (Th.D.)

I see that D.D., D.Min, Litt.D. and LL.D. are absent fron the lists.

[cerberus]

By definition, the JD (Doctor of Jurisprudence) is a doctoral degree, see, because of the D in it. See also MD(Doctor of Medicine), DO(Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine), DDS(Doctor of Dental Surgery), OD(Doctor of Optometry), DPM(Doctor of Podiatric Medicine, …

Professional doctorates exist: cite

The recommendations made by the Task Force are based on the following fundamental assumptions shaped by the Task
Force’s deliberations:

1. a convincing case can be made that the professional doctorate has a clearly defined place in the hierarchy of
   U.S. higher education degrees, and it should be perceived as different from and not as a substitute for the
   research doctorate;
2. particularly in the health care professions there is an obvious need to create capacity to educate practitioners
   and those who will primarily be educating practitioners;
3. the professional doctorate should be considered as a degree level within the hierarchy of U.S. degrees, thereby
   falling under substantive change processes in accreditation;
4. new professional doctorates will mark fields other than those in the health professions;
5. higher education and the professions would benefit from quality assurance of professional doctorates
   validating that through them students acquire professional competencies they would not otherwise gain in
   existing degree programs within a given profession;
6. we cannot wait for answers to a sizable number of questions before creating and implementing strategies of
   quality assurance related to the new professional doctorates; and
7. the Commission can facilitate, experiment, and lead by example, but it cannot respond alone to the need for
   national consistency in defining and evaluating professional doctorates.

The earliest doctorates were in academic and theological disciplines - the doctor is, by definition, a teacher. Note the irony in basing the name of a research degree (PhD) on a word (doctor) that means teacher.

The MD, a professional degree, preceded the PhD in the US. The JD came in after the PhD.

As for the argument that a doctorate is a doctorate only if it is a terminal degree: that renders many of the doctorates in Europe and in the UK nondoctoral - are you arguing that the only real doctorates in Europe are the higher doctorates? The only real doctorate in Germany is Dr.habil.??? Really?

The distinction between a professional doctorate and an academic doctorate is that the professional doctorate is typically based on coursework, does not involve research, and is a precursor for work in a profession (usually in tandem with soem sort of professional board certification). A professional doctorate (in the US, at least) is an entry level degree for service in things like medicine or law, contingent on the passing of additional board examinations and certifications.

It is true that in the European and UK models that the analog for professions like law or medicine are rendered at the bacc or masters level: e.g. MBBS, MBChB, M.cand. and the like.

It is also true that there are additional degrees in these fields that are research/academic focused: LL.M., S.J.D., M.D.(UK) and are designed to support scholarly work in these disciplines.

The use (or lack) of the title “Doctor” is a matter of social and professional concern, and doesn’t invalidate the credential. Current customs vary, but the only people routinely accorded the courtesy are physicians(unless you’re a UK surgeon), academics in certain academic settings, and in some settings theological.

[Alan_Smithee]

@Saint_Cad

If you want to put the Ph.D. up on a pedestal that no other program can reach or take the opposite extreme that any program that has a doctorate in its name is doctoral level, that’s fine.

But a few points. Ph.D. is considered a degree in research. That is why they wear dark blue no matter the field of study. To compare a professional degree to it is simply not the same. I can turn around and somehow rate an Ed.D. higher than a Ph.D. because you do not have as much PRACTICE in the field as I do since your work was all ivory tower research. The point is that they are two equivalent degrees with different areas of concentration. And rigor? Hah. I could go online and have an accredited Ph.D. with very little rigor. As I have pointed out, it is dependent on the degree PROGRAM and not the degree NAME.

I agree with everything you said here. One of my points was that “ranking” post-graduate degrees is a bit foolish since the program is much more important. I was also under the impression that the strict distinction between research and non-research degrees had degraded significantly. However . . .

Here’s what the US Department of Education has to say about it.

That’s pretty definitive! Thanks! (I looked for something like that, but although I found those lists, I didn’t find the explanations that go with them and thought the second list especially looked like a random list of degrees with “doctor” in the title. I didn’t realize they all had actual research involved.)

[ivn1188]

Quick point about L.L.M.s in the US: ~95% of LLM students are foreign citizens who have a law degree in their home country. A lot of those countries have law degrees as a regular university program (Bachelor’s degree equiv). You can certainly get an LLM without a JD, but it will not let you practice law (in the US).

The other small number of LLM students are JDs, mostly tax lawyers, who went back for a little more academic training in a certain area of law. A lot of times the JDs who have LLMs appear to be those who love credentials. LLMs don’t really do research projects.

In fact, it is fairly common for LLM students to stay here and get their JD after the LLM, so they can practice law in the US.

Then there is the SJD, which is the full on research program thing. SJDs are pretty rare, overall. Few law professors get them; PHDs are more common among faculty.

Neither the LLM or the SJD are exciting in a professional way; a lawyer is a lawyer.

[Caffeine.addict]

@ivn1188

Quick point about L.L.M.s in the US: ~95% of LLM students are foreign citizens who have a law degree in their home country. A lot of those countries have law degrees as a regular university program (Bachelor’s degree equiv). You can certainly get an LLM without a JD, but it will not let you practice law (in the US).

The other small number of LLM students are JDs, mostly tax lawyers, who went back for a little more academic training in a certain area of law. A lot of times the JDs who have LLMs appear to be those who love credentials. LLMs don’t really do research projects.

In fact, it is fairly common for LLM students to stay here and get their JD after the LLM, so they can practice law in the US.

Then there is the SJD, which is the full on research program thing. SJDs are pretty rare, overall. Few law professors get them; PHDs are more common among faculty.

Neither the LLM or the SJD are exciting in a professional way; a lawyer is a lawyer.

The only LLMs I’ve run into are either foreigners who wanted to work in the U.S. as attorneys and tax attorneys. New York will allow you to sit for the bar, and I recall hearing that a few other places will as well.

I don’t think I’ve ever run into a SJD even in law school.

[alphaboi867]

@Rumor_Watkins

wrong.
you can’t get either without having a B.A.
and certain PhD programs do not grant a Master’s degree along the way, so it’s the only other degree you have past the B.A. - same with a J.D.

Actually it’s possible, though extremely rare, to get a PhD without having a bachelor’s or other degree. Jane Goodall did, but she had already done extensive research with primates and Cambridge decided it was equivalent to a BS.

[Saint_Cad]

@cerberus

By definition, the JD (Doctor of Jurisprudence) is a doctoral degree, see, because of the D in it. See also MD(Doctor of Medicine), DO(Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine), DDS(Doctor of Dental Surgery), OD(Doctor of Optometry), DPM(Doctor of Podiatric Medicine, …

Professional doctorates exist: cite

Quote:
The recommendations made by the Task Force are based on the following fundamental assumptions shaped by the Task
Force’s deliberations:

1. a convincing case can be made that the professional doctorate has a clearly defined place in the hierarchy of
   U.S. higher education degrees, and it should be perceived as different from and not as a substitute for the
   research doctorate;
2. particularly in the health care professions there is an obvious need to create capacity to educate practitioners
   and those who will primarily be educating practitioners;
3. the professional doctorate should be considered as a degree level within the hierarchy of U.S. degrees, thereby
   falling under substantive change processes in accreditation;
4. new professional doctorates will mark fields other than those in the health professions;
5. higher education and the professions would benefit from quality assurance of professional doctorates
   validating that through them students acquire professional competencies they would not otherwise gain in
   existing degree programs within a given profession;
6. we cannot wait for answers to a sizable number of questions before creating and implementing strategies of
   quality assurance related to the new professional doctorates; and
7. the Commission can facilitate, experiment, and lead by example, but it cannot respond alone to the need for
   national consistency in defining and evaluating professional doctorates.

The earliest doctorates were in academic and theological disciplines - the doctor is, by definition, a teacher. Note the irony in basing the name of a research degree (PhD) on a word (doctor) that means teacher.

So by your logic, if a school wanted to name their bachelor’s program in mathemathics D.Math (Doctor of Math), that would make it a doctorate degree? The US DoE makes it clear that although you call it a doctorate, it doesn’t make it a true doctorate degree. As for your cite, #1 makes it clear that a professional degree is different from and not equivalent to a Ph.D. Saying professional doctorates need to be in the hierarchy is the same as saying that associate degrees need to be in the hierarchy - not that it should be in the hierarchy as a third-level degree.

Check out this cite.

Definition of “.equivalent degree” for pharmacy students.
A number of pharmacy schools have requested a definition of an “equivalent degree” as found in the eligibility
criteria for the HEAL Program Section 770 (c)(2) of the Public Health Service Act states that, for purposes of
participating in the HEAL Program, an eligible pharmacy student is one who is “pursuing a full-time course of study leading to a degree of Bachelor or Master of Science in pharmacy or an equivalent degree.”
In addition to the eligible BacheIor of Science degree in Pharmacy, some pharmacy schools are conferring two different degrees: one, the doctor of pharmacy degree (commonly called the Pharm. D.): the other, the Ph.D. in Pharmacy.
Students in schools of pharmacy are eligible to borrow under the terms of the HEAL Program provided they are enrolled or plan to enroll:
a. in a program leading to a Bachelor or a Master of Science degree in pharmacy or
b. in a program leading to a Pharm.D. degree if it is offered as a first professional degree if it is offered as a first professional degree by a school that does not require the Bachelor or Master of Science in pharmacy as a prerequisite for a Pharm.D. degree.
Students enrolled in the Ph.D. programs in schools of pharmacy are not to participate in the HEAL Program because the Ph.D. degrees cannot be considered first professional degrees and consequently do not meet the criteria for an “equivalent degree".

Sounds like a D.Pharm is equivalent to a bachelor’s or master’s but not a doctorate degree. Any quick serch will show a lot of jobs requiring doctorates that specifically preclude first-professional doctorates.

[cerberus]

Not my logic, the concept of “professional doctorate” dates all the way back to the MD in the US, which preceded the PhD in the US.

I noted the correspondance of the US professional doctorates to Euro/UK professonal masters and baccalaureate degrees.

And I sharply noted the lack of equivalence of research and professional degrees.

And mathematics, by itself, is not a professional discipline, so there is no basis for a professional mathematics degree.

[Pray_for_peace]

@Northern_Piper

Some Canadian law schools have switched to giving J.D. degrees. In US parlance, is it appropriate for someone who holds a J.D. to refer to it as a doctorate? To my mind, a doctorate is a Ph.D or an S.J.D.

I have an American J.D. and Ph.D. I have never heard any practicing attorney or J.D. working in another capacity refer to a J.D. as a “doctorate.” I don’t believe that it would be incorrect to do so, but it is not something that is commonly done.

Along the same line, I have never heard of a J.D. attorney referred to as “doctor.” In my experience, even attorneys with 2 degrees (J.D. and Ph.D., or J.D. and M.D.) are not referred to in conversation or introductions as “doctor”.

[Hirka_T_Bawa]

@Saint_Cad

Sounds like a D.Pharm is equivalent to a bachelor’s or master’s but not a doctorate degree. Any quick serch will show a lot of jobs requiring doctorates that specifically preclude first-professional doctorates.

Couple things, first, it is a PharmD., not a D.Pharm (see my post on the first page), second, I don’t know how old your cite is, but a Bachelors of Pharmacy is no longer offered in the U.S., it has been totally replaced by the PharmD.

Also, I don’t believe a PharmD. is equivalent to a Ph.D., however, I do believe it is equivalent to a M.D. in a lot of ways. True, it is a professional degree, but it is as important a degree as M.D or D.O. Pharmacists with a PharmD. degree do have the right to be called “Doctor” as an honorific, however the only Pharmacists I know who actually use the “Doctor” salutation in normal use are in Academia. Besides that, the only time a pharmacist will normally call themselves a doctor is when someone comes up to the counter and says “I know you’re not a doctor, but I have a question…” and they respond “Actually, I am a Doctor, a Doctor of Pharmacy, how can I help you?”

[AK84]

@DSYoungEsq

This statement is incorrect.

A J.D. candidate is required by most schools to have completed a B.A. or B.S. before enrolling for the J.D.

And as someone before this said, to compare a Ph.D., an M.D., and a J.D. is to compare apples to oranges to lawn chairs.

I have a teacher colleague here at the school I teach in who has his Ph.D. in one of the sciences. He insists upon calling me Dr. Young, because of my J.D. I shake my head and sigh everytime he does it; I’ve never thought that a J.D. entitles one to be called “doctor” as an honorific. To me, that means one of two things: a Ph.D., or a person who fulfills the role of a doctor, that is, a medical professional who engages in treatment of patients. Thankfully, I am neither.
The state of South Carolina, btw, places me in the “masters degree” category for determining which teaching classification to use for salary purposes. I’m quite comfortable with that equivalency.

Its the first degree in law that anyone wishing to practice as a lawyer in the United States takes. Is their a prior degree that you have to take?

@Tom Tildrum

In the US, a JD fulfills the role of a doctorate in one sense: with it, one can become a professor of law at a university. Northern Piper, if you’re still here, is that similarly true of an LLB in Canada? Can you teach law with just that degree, or is some higher degree required?

An LLB on its own is pretty useless generally. Mine definatly was.I know this goes beyond the scope of the question but in England you can teach but usually as an assitant or only part of one subject, not teach as a full professor. A lot of LLB grads find employment as resit tutors, meaning those who teach the students who have failed one years examination, but are given a chance to resit that paper (you get 1 try and the exam is usually in November).

[Monty]

Are there any jurisdictions where one can take and pass the Bar Exam without having a law degree?

[Tom_Tildrum]

@Monty

Are there any jurisdictions where one can take and pass the Bar Exam without having a law degree?

You can in Virginia and possibly one or two other states.

[amarinth]

@Monty

Are there any jurisdictions where one can take and pass the Bar Exam without having a law degree?

Washington