# US Law Enforcement Officers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256 "2009-03-04T10:09:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/21 "2009-03-04T15:42:05Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > You’re a cop? > > Yeah well just rustle me up a cup of cawfee and a chocolate doughnut with some of those sprinkly things on top. > > And be quick about it Careful, “public servant” doesn’t mean quite what it sounds like. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/22 "2009-03-04T15:50:46Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Careful, “public servant” doesn’t mean quite what it sounds like. 😉 It’s okay though… now that we’ve explained everything he understands that he’s out of **Loach** ’s jurisdiction. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/23 "2009-03-04T16:09:15Z")
For what it’s worth, I malpracticed law (mostly criminal defense) for almost 10 years in a previous lifetime. > [@acsenray](#): > > Each state and locality organizes its law enforcement in different ways, but there are a few things to keep in mind: > > 1. There are federal authorities and there are state authorities. Federal authorities have jurisdiction only in circumstances when the federal government has jurisdiction. Pretty much spot on. Someone in an earlier thread suggested that Feds might also have jurisdiction when the perp crosses state lines. Yes, but not over the base crime unless the base crime is a crime which conveys both Federal and state jurisdiction (bank robbery is probably the most common). “Interstate flight to avoid prosecution” (in state court, most often) is, however, itself a Federal offense. Back when I used to visit post offices more often than I do now I got a kick out of looking at wanted posters there; to judge from those a huge portion of the FBI’s caseload is tracking down state criminals who’ve committed the Federal crime of “interstate flight”. Redacting a bit: > [@acsenray](#): > > Generally speaking, there isn’t really a clear “ranking” system. The only things for sure are that the U.S. attorney general is the top federal law enforcement official and the state attorneys general are the top state law enforcement officials. Even stating this, I’m not sure what the U.S. attorney general’s relationship is with police departments in other federal agencies (Capitol Police, Defense Department Police, etc.). The US Attorney General is the head of the Department of Justice, and DoJ (through The Executive Office for United States Attorneys) is the Federal department which handles prosecutions of Federal crimes (most glaring exception, courts martial, which are an entirely military function). The “police departments in other federal agencies” which you mention will work with the US Attorneys in the relevant Federal judicial district in the same way that your local police department will work with the local prosecutor when it’s time to bring a case to court. As far as Federal “police departments” go, the US Attorney General (as head of DoJ) has direct authority only (that I recall) over the FBI, the US Marshal’s Service, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), all of which are organizationally part of the DoJ (though ATF used to be Treasury; they got subsumed into DoJ in 2002 with the major restructuring of Federal law enforcement in the wake of the 9/11 attacks (that’s _way_ oversimplified, but I’m not writing a dissertation here)). Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/24 "2009-03-04T16:50:27Z")
> [@Bluffcityguy](#): > > As far as Federal “police departments” go, the US Attorney General (as head of DoJ) has direct authority only (that I recall) over the FBI, the US Marshal’s Service, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), all of which are organizationally part of the DoJ (though ATF used to be Treasury; they got subsumed into DoJ in 2002 with the major restructuring of Federal law enforcement in the wake of the 9/11 attacks (that’s _way_ oversimplified, but I’m not writing a dissertation here)). The DEA is also a part of the DoJ. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/25 "2009-03-04T17:33:38Z")
Heh. For more fun & confusion: The US Coast Guard is granted law enforcement (and arrest) powers, and is part of the DoHS during peacetime. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/26 "2009-03-04T17:57:09Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > The DEA is also a part of the DoJ. That is correct… Hey, I did say “that I recall”. Actually, it doesn’t suprise me that I forgot DEA. The few DEA agents that I’ve had dealings were truly slimy, repulsive, barely human creatures that left me wanting to take a long shower or a strong acid bath in order to purge the slimy feeling they left behind. They all struck me that, if they hadn’t become DEA agents, they’d have been the same kind of criminals they were trying to apprehend. Jeez… out of hundreds of criminals I represented, maybe one or two left me feeling as creeped out as _every_ DEA agent I met did. Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![tetranz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@tetranz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tetranz)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/27 "2009-03-04T18:00:57Z")
> [@picker](#): > > There can sometimes be a bewildering array of law enforcement in an area. Here in Madison I have seen: > > City of Madison Police > … > Town of Madison You really have a town and city both called Madison? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/28 "2009-03-04T18:03:00Z")
The Secret Service was part of the Treasury Department until 2003, when as part of the post-9-11 governmental restructuring, it was placed under the Department of Homeland Security. The Secret Service has some law-enforcement responsibilities (counterfeiting, fraud and Internet crime, most notably) in addition to its protective duties. And two spelling nitpicks: it’s “U.S. Marshal” (one “l”) and “U.S. Marshals Service” (no apostrophe). > **[Home](https://www.usmarshals.gov/)** > > The U.S. Marshals Service was the first federal law enforcement agency in the United States, enforcing the federal courts. Duties include protecting the federal ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/29 "2009-03-04T18:04:02Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Heh. For more fun & confusion: The US Coast Guard is granted law enforcement (and arrest) powers, and is part of the DoHS during peacetime. 🙂 Well, there are a lot of Federal law enforcement agencies (and the USCG is but one) which don’t fall under the DoJ (and therefore, strictly speaking, don’t fall under the direct control of the US Attorney General). Giving this page a gander: > **[Category:Federal law enforcement agencies of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Federal_law_enforcement_agencies_of_the_United_States)** > > This category has the following 14 subcategories, out of 14 total. > The following 44 pages are in this category, out of 44 total. This list may not reflect recent changes. I see a few I’d like to know more about (I see I’m not getting much work done today…): United States Mint Police (makes you wonder of they’re the guys who bust the rings that smuggle fake Altoids into the country…) National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Fisheries Office for Law Enforcement Smithsonian Police Supreme Court Police Library of Congress Police Federal Reserve Police Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/30 "2009-03-04T18:10:43Z")
The Secret Service recently moved from Treasury to Homeland Security. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/31 "2009-03-04T18:25:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Secret Service recently moved from Treasury to Homeland Security. Beat you by seven minutes! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/32 "2009-03-04T18:31:18Z")
> [@tetranz](#): > > You really have a town and city both called Madison? Just try and figure out some of the municipal snenannigans in New York. We’ve got a village called Mamaroneck which is simultaneously incorporated inside two towns, one of which is also called Mamaroneck. And that town’s area is largely occupied by the neighboring village of Larchmont. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/33 "2009-03-04T18:33:25Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Beat you by seven minutes! 😉 Rats! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/34 "2009-03-04T18:41:12Z")
> [@Bluffcityguy](#): > > Well, there are a lot of Federal law enforcement agencies (and the USCG is but one) which don’t fall under the DoJ (and therefore, strictly speaking, don’t fall under the direct control of the US Attorney General). > > Giving this page a gander: > > [Category:Federal law enforcement agencies of the United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Federal_law_enforcement_agencies_of_the_United_States) Wow, how cool is this one? 🙂 [Shadow Wolves](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Wolves) ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/35 "2009-03-04T18:55:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s okay though… now that we’ve explained everything he understands that he’s out of **Loach** ’s jurisdiction. 😃 Just a minute, don’t we in Merrie England have an extradition thingy with the USA. Sorry **Loach** my 'umble apologies 😛 ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/36 "2009-03-04T18:56:44Z")
Here’s an alternative perspective…Whereas in Canada, it’s much simpler. Not surprising, when the eggheads in London decided to put together a country that avoided the biggest messes they saw in 100 years of US history… The Criminal Code is a product of the federal government in Ottawa. The same criminal laws apply all across the country. There are local laws that can land you in court (traffic and such) but a crime has to be designated for all of Canada by the feds. This results in situations where the offense of DUI which results in a license suspension can be set by a province under the traffic rules, but the criminal offense of DUI with jail time is set federally. Negotiation and politics are a hallmark of our governing process. The police are designated as “peace officers” in the criminal code, whether RCMP, provincial police or municipal (or Band constables on reserves, etc.). This means their power is legal all across Canada; although the local council might wonder if they pay a salary for a cop who does stuff that doesn’t seem to benefit their community. That’s a discipline issue, not a legal one. The courts are all instruments of Her Majesty QEII, but generally courts are under the provinces’ Attorneys General and paid for by them. The provinces tell the police what to enforce, and tell crown attorneys what to prosecute; which can result for example in gun resgistration being the (federal) law, but some provinces declining to prosecute certain aspects of the crime. Because the laws apply across Canada, there is no such thing as extradition between provinces. the police are all agents of her Majesty, the courts are hers, and the prisoners are her guests to be shuffled at her pleasure. There is the interesting aspect that because law enforcement and courts are provincially funded - if a prisoner is arrested in Vancouver for a warrant for some minor offense that happened in Toronto - the Toronto courts may not want to pay his way back, so he’s let go. It’s a cheap form of exile - don’t come back or you’ll be arrested on an open warrant. British Columbia recently got fed up with being the dumping ground and started publicizing that they would pay for these “non-extraditions” to scare perps away from heading to BC. Just like mentioned in the USA, the chain of command just goes up to the local chief of police and then the Attorney General. Different forces cooperate (or not) out of the goodness of their heart and desire for credit or publicity. Whoever had jurisdiction owns the case. Also, many small local municipalities tend to use the RCMP or provincial police (in BC, Ontario, Quebec and Newfoundland, IIRC) instead of small forces of 1 or 2 donut-munchers. provinces have much more jurisdiction; the force in East St Paul near Winnipeg was recently disbanded when a public enquiry showed the chief and several otehrs deliberately obstructed a DUI-causing-death case against a neighboring policeman. The RCMP replaced the 15 or so cops. It’s convenient. The RCMP handles recruiting, training, management, discipline. Men are rotated every few years, and answer to the chief in Ottawa; so you don’t get the situation where the chief becomes too cozy and involved in small town politics. There are sherriff’s departments too, but they do things like escorting prisoners, evictions, etc. they don’t seem to get involved in crimes. Under the law, there’s a long list of “peace officers” including police, prison guards, court officers, and even pilots in charge of operating an airplane. You mess with these at risk of criminal prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/37 "2009-03-04T18:57:01Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Wow, how cool is this one? 🙂 > > [Shadow Wolves](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Wolves) Definitely in the running for the title of “Most. Badass. Federal. Cops. Ever.” High in the running. Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/38 "2009-03-04T18:58:04Z")
What about those campus police you guys have? Is their power/authority limited to the campus? ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/39 "2009-03-04T19:05:28Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Here’s an alternative perspective…Whereas in Canada, it’s much simpler. Not surprising, when the eggheads in London decided to put together a country that avoided the biggest messes they saw in 100 years of US history… Reading the rest of your (very good) post which I redacted, one thing strikes me though. It was easier for those eggheads in London to accomplish this, because they didn’t have to deal with the complicating issue we had to down here. That is, namely, that the United States didn’t start out as a single sovereign nation, it started out as a loose federation of (originally) 13 sovereign nations. The notion of the United States as one nation with (now) 50 subordinate political jurisdictions underneath it is really a result of the North winning the Civil War (substitute “War for Southern Independence” if you’re from Dixie). Ok, I oversimplify here, but that doesn’t change the basic fact: the locus of general jurisdiction in American federalism lies with the states, while the Federal government only has jurisdiction in those matters regarding the limited areas that the states ceded to the Federal government when the Constitution was ratified. Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256/40 "2009-03-04T19:10:03Z")
> [@Bluffcityguy](#): > > Ok, I oversimplify here, but that doesn’t change the basic fact: the locus of general jurisdiction in American federalism lies with the states, while the Federal government only has jurisdiction in those matters regarding the limited areas that the states ceded to the Federal government when the Constitution was ratified. > > Cheers, > > bcg Hmm. The way that the Federal Gov “influences” the states, through Federal financial contributions to local programs (like education) gives the Fed Gov a lot more power than that solely implied by what’s in the Constitution, it seems to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-law-enforcement-officers/488256.md?page=3)