# US loses UN Human Rights Seat **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2001, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260 "2001-05-03T20:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/1 "2001-05-03T20:47:16Z")
Don’t know how much debate there is here but… From [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/05/03/us.human/index.html): > [@](#): > > UNITED NATIONS – In what amounts to a stinging rebuke, the United States has been voted off the U.N. Human Rights Commission in Geneva. and > [@](#): > > One diplomat speculated that U.S. policies on the Middle East might have swung some countries to reject its candidacy. > > But according to Reuters, some diplomats said they believed the Bush administration’s opposition to the Kyoto climate change treaty as well as its insistence on a missile defense contributed to the loss. …has to be worthy of some discussion. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/2 "2001-05-03T21:09:58Z")
AFAIK, the US has had a less than steller image with groups like Amnesty INternational on the subject of human rights, specifically, due mostly to our death penalty stance. Specifically that we do not prohibit the exeuction of minors, persons with developmental disabilities etc. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/3 "2001-05-03T21:31:54Z")
I’d heard that too. I also know that Human Rights Watch is routinely critical of our Justice System and Race Relations. So I went over there, and found this intersting piece, regarding members who’ve been granted seats. > [@](#): > > Joining the 53-member commission today were Sudan, Uganda, Sierra Leone, and Togo, among others, to a three-year rotating membership. These countries will join Syria, Algeria, Libya, Saudi Arabia, and Vietnam, all countries with very poor human rights records elected to the commission last year. On the US they said: [quote] “In recent years, the United States often failed to support important human rights initiatives at the commission, or found itself voting alone, on the wrong side of important issues,” said Weschler. “It’s not surprising that the U.S. was voted off. But to punish the United States and reward Sudan is clearly absurd.” The rest of the story can be found [here](http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/05/unvote0503.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/4 "2001-05-03T22:27:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*AFAIK, the US has had a less than steller image with groups like Amnesty INternational on the subject of human rights, specifically, due mostly to our death penalty stance. Specifically that we do not prohibit the exeuction of minors, persons with developmental disabilities etc. \*\* I think Amnesty International has a bigger beef with Saudi Arabia then they do with the United States. I bring Saudi Arabia up because they were admitted into this UN Human Rights Convention. As a matter of law they repress any religion not their own, they forbid women to drive, they use torture to get confessions from criminals, and amputation is still a viable punishment for theft and robbery. Personally I find the whole UN Human Rights Convention to be a rather funny joke. How can anyone take them seriously when countries like Saudi Arabia, Uganda, or Libya join their ranks. Marc ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/5 "2001-05-03T22:37:26Z")
Understand that AI has bigger issues with folks like Saudi etc. Also, no argument that Libya has an ‘interesting’ history as well. However, and the Human Rights Commission should take notes here, it’s a better to have your own background clean when you’re accusing some one else on human rights violations. ---
**Author:** ![Mambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mambo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/6 "2001-05-05T14:49:30Z")
Well, I suppose I should move to Sierra Leone where my human rights will be respected. The problem isn’t America’s human rights record, it is America’s pattern of isolating itself from the rest of the world, whether it be on capital punishment or mid-east policy. We seem to the rest of the world to be beligerenet and selfish. This issue has nothing to do with our human rights record, the UN members are just getting back at us. Regent Bush has already shown the American people his style of governing (all thumbs and with two feet in his mouth) and I am certain he will deal with this “crisis” by insulting, stepping on, or vomiting on someone important. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/7 "2001-05-05T16:52:31Z")
I have to partially agree with **Mambo** , here. The sudden, solipsistic, policy changes of the United States invited such a thing. Furthermore, high-profile (internationally, not here in the U.S.) cases such as that of Leonard Peltier’s further underscore gaping holes in the American justice system. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/8 "2001-05-05T16:58:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mambo \* > \*\*I am certain he will deal with this “crisis” by insulting, stepping on, or vomiting on someone important. \*\* Any of which would be _way_ too good for a commission which claims to be dedicated to human rights and counts fucking _Sudan_ as a member. Turns out I was wrong and Helms was right all along. We seriously ought to get out of the UN and stop giving them money. Sudan? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/9 "2001-05-05T17:18:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by manhattan_: > We seriously ought to get out of the UN and stop giving them money. Cough. Aren’t we deep in debt with the UN to the tune of a billion dollars or more? Does “stop giving them money” mean “stop repaying our debt”? And tangentially, why is the wealthiest nation in the solar system in debt to anybody in the first place? Is it good politics to rack up huge interest charges or something? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/10 "2001-05-05T17:18:05Z")
Mambo wrote: > [@](#): > > Regent Bush has already shown the American people his style of governing (all thumbs and with two feet in his mouth) and I am certain he will deal with this “crisis” by insulting, stepping on, or vomiting on someone important. Ho ho, _That’s My Bush!_ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/11 "2001-05-05T17:18:31Z")
[http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/latest?n=20&ao=1](http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/latest?n=20&ao=1) These people are practically cheering about it, while saying that the UN is trying to take us over anyways. Interesting… Also, considering how imperialistic the US has been in the past century… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/12 "2001-05-05T17:19:13Z")
Maybe they’d let us back in if we stopped the “rogue nation” act and held free, fair and democratic elections ? We’ve used the Human rights commission as a bully pulpit for years; and quite successfully too. It’s too bad we finally po’d enough countries to lose our position, but having a sour grape attitude about it isn’t going to help matters. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/13 "2001-05-05T17:20:52Z")
**Attrayant** : I agree entirely that we ought to pay our past assessments. They got hung up in Congress, and that’s inexcusable. Class countries do not do that. Well, maybe pay our dues less the parking tickets. We can send that portion to Guiliani. However, I have, for now, changed my mind on whether we should pay any future dues. Sudan? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/14 "2001-05-05T18:31:29Z")
Well, certainly it’s hard to have any illusions about the UN as a great force for world peace and justice anymore. As far as the U.S. withdrawing from the UN entirely, I suppose there are still pragmatic arguments against it. The U.S. has, after all, used the UN to give itself political cover for waging two wars (Korea and the Persian Gulf); as long as we find it, on balance, in our interests to remain in the UN, we’ll stay in. It’s kind of funny, how the lunatic fringe in this country sees the UN as some sort of wicked, oppressive Evil Empire which threatens American sovereignty; meanwhile, most of the rest of the world sees the UN as an instrument of American power. The rest of the world is much more correct than the American militia types–the anti-Americanism of the UN is mainly rhetorical, whereas when the U.S. decides to use the UN for its purposes, it results in armies being deployed and countries bombed; _most_ of the time, the UN is simply irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/15 "2001-05-05T18:49:09Z")
Some UN agencies do outstanding work, e.g World Health Organizaton. Other are useless or even counterproductive, like UNESCO and the anti-Semitic Human Rights Commission. The HRC is mostly used to attack the only democracy in the middle east. Given their membership, it’s obvious that they won’t fight slavery or government repression or tyranny. Even today’s NYT editorial failed to cite anything they ever had done that had actually made the world a better place. No doubt the US could get back on this disgusting committee by some kind of internal politicking. This strikes me as repulsive – sucking up to countries with tyrrany or slavery in order to get a seat on a useless committee. A working UN is vital. The US needs to find ways to fix the UN. The ugly practice of withholding our dues could conceivably be a valuable stick or carrot to promomte improvement, if the US finds ways to make this happen. I’m not optimistic, but I hope reform can be forced on them. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/16 "2001-05-05T19:12:51Z")
\>\> the US has had a less than steller image with groups like Amnesty International… Very true, unlike countries like China etc, where AI is just plain outlawed. This is really silly and I acannot see the least connection between the human rights record of the US and it being voted out of the commission. I think it is 100% pure politics. To have those other countries deciding human rights issues is a cruel joke. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/17 "2001-05-05T23:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*… it’s a better to have your own background clean when you’re accusing some one else on human rights violations. \*\* Of course it’s always better for the US to improve its human rights record. (With W in the White House, I think real progress is now possible.) Although the US human rights record isn’t perfect, it’s already one of the best in the world, so I don’t see this point as determinative of our committee membership. If you look at the member nations, the western nations tend to have the best HR records, but the West is restricted to a small number of seats. Make of that what you will… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Kommissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dc4da7/32.png) [@Der\_Kommissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Kommissar)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/18 "2001-05-05T23:47:54Z")
And the biggest insult of all is the U.N.'s location in downtown Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2001, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/19 "2001-05-06T00:12:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Of course it’s always better for the US to improve its human rights record. (With W in the White House, I think real progress is now possible.)to a small number of seats. Make of that what you will… \*\* Specificaly in relation to Amnesty International’s objection to the US execution of minors etc - we’re in a group of what is it, 4?5? nations in the world - Iran, Iraq, can’t remember the other ones, in this regard. Don’t see any reason to believe that Mr. Bush has any intention of changing that. I understand and agree that other nations have horrid records on human rights, and that in many ways, our country makes real attempts etc, and proud to be American etc. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2001, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260/20 "2001-05-06T00:53:49Z")
Isn’t UNICEF a part of the UN? I would think that would be a huge plus. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-loses-un-human-rights-seat/64260.md?page=2)