# US Marines vs US Army **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 30, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457 "2005-01-30T18:44:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/41 "2005-01-31T16:42:07Z")
When my dad went into the Navy at the tail end of WWII they lined up all the draftees and in came two Marines. They walked up and down the rows and picked out two or three men for the Marines and marched them off to separate draftee process. The new Marines weren’t given a choice, nor did they seem too happy about the situation. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/42 "2005-01-31T17:19:40Z")
In my first term in Quantico, the candidate in the top rack (my _bunkmate_) was known to be prior Army – I believe an E-3. Just before he washed out of OCS, he confided what was to him the substantial difference between the two services: “This is hardcore, man. I’m not ready to die.” I think it was the nightly recital of a portion of _Thanatopsis_ that really did him in. 😉 **Compared to the experiences of friends and family in the Army, there are three differences** : 1. Any Marine is my brother. I am prepared to give my life retrieving his ruined carcass. 2. The authority, bearing and courage refined in the Marine will stay with him throughout his life. 3. Esprit de Corps: clean mind, body and weapon; love of Country; personal Honor; assuredness of Destiny. People often talk about “brainwashing,” but that’s an unfortunate simplification; every US military service requires indoctrination. In combat, that methodical training is usually what keeps you pulling the trigger instead of quivering in the shade and shelter of the enemy’s busted-up hooch. It’s the true, honest, often thorny philosophical difference that makes a person _choose_ the difficult path of the Marine Corps. We have a saying: “Any man can be made a soldier. Only God can make a Marine.” ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/43 "2005-01-31T17:40:58Z")
**. Esprit de Corps: clean mind, body and weapon; love of Country; personal Honor; assuredness of Destiny.** Lee Harvey Oswald Charles Whitman Andres Raya Wassef Ali Hassoun Johnny Williams David Bieber Johhny Lee Williams Ruben Wright Patrick Vallor William Baer Michael Pereira Darryl Antle Alejandro Soto Anthony Mertz Want to tell us about the “clean minds” and "personal honor’ of these Marines? I stopped listing because I got bored, not because I ran out of convicted criminals who were also USMC. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/44 "2005-01-31T17:44:40Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > People often talk about “brainwashing,” but that’s an unfortunate simplification; every US military service requires indoctrination. In combat, that methodical training is usually what keeps you pulling the trigger instead of quivering in the shade and shelter of the enemy’s busted-up hooch. I use that term as a way to explain in simple terms to those you cannot know why a Marine will leave the safety of a position and expose himself to probable death to benefit another Marine. It is against human nature to kill, or allow oneself to be killed. Parris Island, San Diego, and Quantico, plus any school or unit thereafter, instills and reiterates Esprit de Corps and pride in the uniform in an institutionalized manner, affecting the psyche of the Marines in a very effective and lasting manner. The other services, in my experince, do not do this to NEARLY the degree that the Marine Corps does. I don’t use the term “brainwashing” to those who know. UncleBill Major, USMCR, IRR ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/45 "2005-01-31T17:54:48Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > \*\*Want to tell us about the “clean minds” and "personal honor’ of these Marines? I stopped listing because I got bored, not because I ran out of convicted criminals who were also USMC. It a good rule of thumb that 10% of any large group are shitbirds. That list makes about an infantry squad. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/46 "2005-01-31T17:55:56Z")
Do sailors frequently make fun of Marines? I recall on a tour of the USS Consititution, the sailor giving the tour pointed out that some of the cannons had arrows on the barrel pointing toward the opening. He explained that this was so that the marines on board would know what way to point them. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/47 "2005-01-31T18:11:35Z")
> [@UncleBill](#): > > It a good rule of thumb that 10% of any large group are shitbirds. That list makes about an infantry squad. No kidding. I served in the Army with some fellows who were there because the judge gave them that option in place of prison. What I was actually commenting on is that while Marines receive an enormous amount of conditioning designed to enhance their loyalty to the organization and to each other, I don’t personally buy into the idea that Marines as a group are any better (or any worse) than a random selection of Americans. This refers to intellectual and moral development, not to the specific set of military skills that Marines are taught. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/48 "2005-01-31T18:21:25Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Lee Harvey Oswald > Charles Whitman > Andres Raya > Wassef Ali Hassoun > Johnny Williams > David Bieber > Johhny Lee Williams > Ruben Wright > Patrick Vallor > William Baer > Michael Pereira > Darryl Antle > Alejandro Soto > Anthony Mertz > > Want to tell us about the “clean minds” and "personal honor’ of these Marines? I stopped listing because I got bored, not because I ran out of convicted criminals who were also USMC. None of these men served under this Marine. Besides, I thought we were comparing the US Marine Corps to the US Army, not random sociopaths to an overarching philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/49 "2005-01-31T18:23:52Z")
After my earlier joke I’ll answer that yes sailors make fun of Marines. Hopefully it is taken in the same spirit that Marines make fun of us sailors calling us taxi drivers. All things said, I’ll buy a Marine the first round any day of the week. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/50 "2005-01-31T18:24:49Z")
> [@UncleBill](#): > > I don’t use the term “brainwashing” to those who know. > > UncleBill > Major, USMCR, IRR Understood, Sir. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/51 "2005-01-31T18:28:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Besides, I thought we were comparing the US Marine Corps to the US Army, not random sociopaths to an overarching philosophy. You are free to believe whatever you want. My point remains what it was: Marines as a group are no “cleaner of mind” nor personally honorable than a random selection of the same number of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/52 "2005-01-31T18:36:17Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You are free to believe whatever you want. My point remains what it was: Marines as a group are no “cleaner of mind” nor personally honorable than a random selection of the same number of Americans. Your selection was **not** random. You cherrypicked. You compared the _worst_ of a 200+ year old organization to a random assortment of schucks off the street. Unfair. Grossly. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/53 "2005-01-31T19:09:53Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Your selection was **not** random. > > You cherrypicked. > > You compared the _worst_ of a 200+ year old organization to a random assortment of schucks off the street. > > Unfair. Grossly. Not so. You want me to see a whole truckload of murderers, rapsists, thieves, etc. who _aren’t_ Marines? Look at the police reports from any US paper from any day. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/54 "2005-01-31T19:11:02Z")
Pardon. That should read "You want to see a whole truckload of murderers, rapsists, thieves, etc. who _aren’t_ Marines? Look at the police reports from any US paper from any day. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/55 "2005-01-31T21:06:49Z")
To be fair, then, tally up the number of convicted criminals from the Marine Corps, and compare that to the number of convicted criminals from the Army, then adjust for service size. Otherwise you are departing from the question posed in the OP, comparing the U.S. Marine Corps to the US Army. There was no comparison requested between the Marines and your average Joe. The Marine Corps (and Army) are going to tend to take the more testosterone-laden individuals, those more at ease with violence and force. That subgroup of Americana may, indeed, include a smaller subgroup that has more of a tendency toward criminal activity, but it is not valid to group in all of the Army and Marine Corps into that subgroup that ends up criminally oriented. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/56 "2005-01-31T21:57:12Z")
> [@UncleBill](#): > > To be fair, then, tally up the number of convicted criminals from the Marine Corps, and compare that to the number of convicted criminals from the Army, then adjust for service size. > > Otherwise you are departing from the question posed in the OP, comparing the U.S. Marine Corps to the US Army. There was no comparison requested between the Marines and your average Joe. > > The Marine Corps (and Army) are going to tend to take the more testosterone-laden individuals, those more at ease with violence and force. That subgroup of Americana may, indeed, include a smaller subgroup that has more of a tendency toward criminal activity, but it is not valid to group in all of the Army and Marine Corps into that subgroup that ends up criminally oriented. No, I don’t think so. We had a Marine post here about clean mind, etc. Now, if Marines wish to publicly boast that they are the world’s reigning experts on amphibious assault, I’ll back that 100%. If you want to boast that every Marine is a rifleman, then based on the amount of training time dedicated to that particular skill, that may arguably be the case. Where y’all lose me is when you start into this business that Marines are, somehow, just a better class of human being. I guesss since you are the ones doing all the bragging, it is up to you to make _your_ case. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/57 "2005-02-01T00:06:10Z")
The _real_ difference between the Army and the Marines: 😛 The Marines think they can take on the World, but usually just stop at the beach. Chest thumping and High-Fives ensue. The Army _wants_ to stop at the beach, but has to go take on the World. Bitching and complaining ensues. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/58 "2005-02-01T01:11:27Z")
I don’t know about all that “clean of mind” stuff, but two things I learned from experience during my enlistment; If I walked into a bar full of US Army guys, seeking some peaceful drinking? Leave. If I walked into a bar full of Marines, seeking some peaceful drinking? Join in. Also, I got to do shore patrol a couple of times. Lucky me, huh? Anyway, give me a bar full of brawling Marines any day. Which was actually pretty rare. They were a _lot_ easier to calm down. Due to discipline, I assume. And confidence. Sailors and Army dudes were a _lot_ quicker to fight, and harder to stop. Worse was Army. Again, this was '64 - '68. Thing is, soldiers never got laid. 😉 Don’t know why. BTW; yes, sailors (on my ship, an LPD), picked on Marines. Who gave it back, in spades. We were _tight_. That means “close”. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/59 "2005-02-01T04:30:02Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > None of these men served under this Marine. > > Besides, I thought we were comparing the US Marine Corps to the US Army, not random sociopaths to an overarching philosophy. I should point out that those particular Marines were EXCEPTIONAL sociopaths. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457/60 "2005-02-01T04:59:58Z")
> [@](#): > > There was a real danger in the post WWII years that Congress would disappear the USMC. In order to preserve them selves the Marines went on a real publicity binge to present them selves as an elite corps. While the Marines may, indeed, have felt it necessary to run an aggressive PR campaign for whatever reason, it started long before any post-WWII appropriations committee meetings. The Marine publicity group was instrumental in creating a lot of “good will” throughout WWII. (In one notable case, they had such control of the 1942 movie Wake Island that they eliminated the Navy and most of the civilian contractors (who made up the vast majority of the actual defenders) completely, even “killing off” the actual Navy commandant (who survived the war as a POW) so that the Marine officer could be the brave leader of the garrison.) This in no way diminishes the bravery and sacrifice of those Marines who were there, but it does demonstrate that the PR system was well in place long before 1946. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-marines-vs-us-army/287457.md?page=4)