# US military in torture scandal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2004, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829 "2004-04-30T11:18:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/222 "2004-05-03T04:16:06Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Then how about the people who torture the torturers, should they also be tortured? Where does your chain of torture stop, or does it? What the hell is that, a _reasonable_ argument? First you people throw shit at me for two days and now you want to _discuss_ things? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/223 "2004-05-03T04:24:46Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > What the hell is that, a _reasonable_ argument? First you people throw shit at me for two days and now you want to _discuss_ things? Methinks you shat on _yourself_. Go wipe. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/224 "2004-05-03T04:44:52Z")
> [@](#): > > **Aldebaran** : And if you like to hear my opinion: I think the US army is at this point in time and in gneral much more brainwashed into dehuminizing “the other” and in thinking they are better then the rest of the world, then the British. I’m not really familiar with how British troops are trained, but I think there is probably always some dehumanizing of the other that takes place. I am more likely to agree with the second part of your statement. In my own opinion, we used to take pride in thinking of ourselves as “the good guys.” Now there is a lot of pride in being, for the moment, the most powerful nation in the world. That is not a good sign. Keep in mind, though, that hundreds of thousands of Americans have protested the war from the beginning and that most American Dopers are not supporters of our current White House Administration’s foreign policies. Some polls are now showing that less than 50% of Americans now believe that we should have gone to war in Iraq. We don’t all think with one mind and the same is true for our troops. It was a US soldier that was haunted by the photos he was shown who reported these injustices to his commander. **New Iskander** , your thinking perpetuates the problem. The torturing is the result of hatred. If you harbor the hatred and nurture it, and if you would find pleasure in seeing your enemy tortured, then the biggest difference in you and Saddam is probably opportunity. Finally, one of the prisoners named al-Shweiri was interviewed and said the following: > [@](#): > > “They wanted us to feel as though we were women, the way women feel and this is the worst insult, to feel like a woman.” – from a news source at Yahoo Even this victim continues to look with contempt at half the population of his country. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/225 "2004-05-03T04:50:35Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Oh, great, now I pissed off the Mossad! > > Honestly, the connection didn’t even occur to me. Then what the fuck is a “Christ Executioner” and why are they worthy of scorn. As for the Mossad crack, you obviously don’t know a single fucking thing about me, and that’s where I’ll let it rest. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/226 "2004-05-03T04:55:16Z")
Originally posted by **Zoe** > [@](#): > > _“They wanted us to feel as though we were women, the way women feel and this is the worst insult, to feel like a woman.” – from a news source at Yahoo_ ``` Jesus! Did he say that? So, When all this shit is over and the prisoner is a free man, I'd love to have a word with him. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/227 "2004-05-03T05:23:24Z")
**Dan Norder** : > [@](#): > > - One thing I do wonder about are the photos of the “oral rape” on the site linked to earlier. Not that I think there aren’t soldiers who would do this, but I am a born skeptic. Something about some of them strike me as knockoff porn that someone forwarded over to try to get people even more mad. Not clearly so, but enough to make me wonder. Although I would suspect that if that’s really the case we’ll know soon enough, as someone somewhere will have seen it in both places and comment on it. Some of the other photos look suspicious too, but I think that’s more poor quality of the camera and so forth.\* You know, I’ve wondered that myself. Some of the photos look like something you’d find in a magazine buried in the back of an adult bookstore in Amsterdam, sandwiched between “Dog Love” and “Latex Fetish Octogenarians.” But **NI** , apparently, would defend these acts, _even if they turn out to be real_. He would reduce them to mere “pranks,” common even in the US, and have us believe that they are acceptable because the victims _might_ have deserved it. And now he tries to hide behind his pathetic partisan posturing, demonstrating for the whole world what twisted, sick puppy he really is. It churns the stomach. **New Iskander** : > [@](#): > > _Time to summarize._ I’m sorry. Don’t you mean, “Time to post another idiotic, content-free pile of steaming nonsense?” > [@](#): > > - Wishing harm on Saddam makes me ‘the lowest form of life’. > > Wishing harm on Bush is OK.\* You see? That was, indeed, exactly what you meant. Thought so. > [@](#): > > _Case closed._ You wish, don’t you, you pathetic, bleating little cunt? Here’s hoping the remainder of your stay here at the **SDMB** is as unpleasant for you as this thread has been, until you finally leave this place and never darken our door again. Really. Go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/228 "2004-05-03T05:51:59Z")
> [@Mr. Svinlesha](#): > > Here’s hoping the remainder of your stay here at the **SDMB** is as unpleasant for you as this thread has been, until you finally leave this place and never darken our door again. **Your door?** Well, if it’s true and the SDMB door is indeed yours, the resolution should be simple. Refund my subscription and I shall leave. If you don’t have authority to do that, Shut Up! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/229 "2004-05-03T12:41:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The “sex video” clips seem faked- uniforms are wrong, etc. Those do not seem to be real Allied servicemen. Note also that no 'real" media is claiming they are real. And yet, in practical terms, it’s irrelevant whether they’re real or faked. They’ll be circulated in the Muslim world as further proof that the West really is hellbent on debasing and destroying their culture. The genuine photos of torture and sexual humiliation will give them the veneer of validity. How long will it be, I wonder, before we see photos of captured servicemen, civilian contractors, or aid workers being subjected to what’s depicted in the torture photos? How huge will be the raging howl for vengeance against the Islamic scumbeasts who dare to do this? To what circle of Hell will this spiral descend? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/230 "2004-05-03T13:00:17Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > How long will it be, I wonder, before we see photos of captured servicemen, civilian contractors, or aid workers being subjected to what’s depicted in the torture photos? How huge will be the raging howl for vengeance against the Islamic scumbeasts who dare to do this? Not to put too fine a point on it, but this already happened just over a month ago. The four mercenaries from Blackwater were savagely killed, Bush swore revenge, and so something like 120 coalition troops and 1300 Iraqis died to slake George’s thirst for vengence. And at the end of all that, the US handed Fallujah over to one of Saddam’s guys. It was all so fucking pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/231 "2004-05-03T13:03:16Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > … In my own opinion, we used to take pride in thinking of ourselves as “the good guys.” Now there is a lot of pride in being, for the moment, the most powerful nation in the world. That is not a good sign. That was what I meant to say. The combination of both makes them much more vulnarable for the tactics that dehuminize “the other” in their minds. > [@](#): > > Keep in mind, though, that hundreds of thousands of Americans have protested the war from the beginning and that most American Dopers are not supporters of our current White House Administration’s foreign policies. I know that. I’m even rather convinced that the rest of the world - and especially the Arab/Islamic world - has seen much more news coverage of these protests then the US population itself. There was a lot of emphasis on that in Arab news coverage in an attempt to soften the “crusade” idiocy of Bush The Divinely Inspired. The same counts for the media coverage of the demonstrations all over the globe. I had once a thread on GD asking why there were no such world wide demonstrations going on upto this day. And especially in the USA. I think we had an ongoing disagreement there because someone brought up that there were indeed demonstrations. For all kind of things including “some against the war” .Those “all kind of things including some against the war” were however not what I had and have in mind. > [@](#): > > Some polls are now showing that less than 50% of Americans now believe that we should have gone to war in Iraq. We don’t all think with one mind and the same is true for our troops. It was a US soldier that was haunted by the photos he was shown who reported these injustices to his commander. Polls never impress me one bit 🙂 The rest of what you said is obviously true as it is only normal. Yet what seems also to be the case is that this scandal was known already for months and that the news coverage of it was delayed on specific demand of the US government. > [@](#): > > Finally, one of the prisoners named al-Shweiri was interviewed and said the following: > Finally, one of the prisoners named al-Shweiri was interviewed and said the following: > \*Quote: > “They wanted us to feel as though we were women, the way women feel and this is the worst insult, to feel like a woman.” – from a news source at Yahoo \* First of all I would like to read the entire interview in the original version = before translation. We all know what can get lost or can be added, willfully or not, when translating. (And I would add: the more when translating a text into a language of an other language group). Hence I also don’t know what was referred to with “feel like a woman”. Maybe he got raped and referred to this being a crime primarely against women, and then linked that to his paternalistic upbringing that teached him that men are always superior and thus that even a crime was more an insult when it was one that was primarely targetted against women. > [@](#): > > Even this victim continues to look with contempt at half the population of his country. See above. It is also not very honest to insinuate that this person is the representative of an entire population. Although I must confess that in my opinion certain streamings among the Shia are even more deluded in their interpretation of “how an Islamic woman _has_ to behave” then the lunatical Wahabbis. We also have to deal - in Iraq as much as elswhere -with thousands of years of cultural influences on religion. That is a vicious circle that shall not be broken and then diasppear in our lifetime I’m afraid. We all know that there are several places on this globe where women are considered to be less then men. That you and others focuss that much on situations in Islamic nations is not a surprize to me. Yet there are a lot of non Muslim nations who have the same attidtude, be it not that outsppoken in forcing women to cover from top to toe. Nevertheless the discrimination is blatant. I could give you some examples I have first hand information about to discuss and compare, but then we should open a thread in GD about it. Salaam. A With great love oppressed by two of those who seem to belong in your eyes to the contempted half of the populationn and by one little belonging to the contempted half of the population, learning fast from her mother how to do it. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/232 "2004-05-03T16:28:07Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Not to put too fine a point on it, but this already happened just over a month ago. > > The four mercenaries from Blackwater were savagely killed, Bush swore revenge, and so something like 120 coalition troops and 1300 Iraqis died to slake George’s thirst for vengence. Yes, in fact I was thinking about that when I posted. My thought was, what will happen to the next Westerners taken alive? Lynch mob doing to the living what was done to the presumably dead-when-abused mercenaries in Fallujah? Or to be photographed undergoing the torture our own forces inflicted on those Iraqi prisoners? And the relatives of the troops now under investigation, who are minimizing what they did: How would they react if it were their brother, wife, son, husband who was photographed hooded, naked, and humiliated by grinning Iraqis? Would troglodytes like **New Iskander** dismiss it as harmless pranks? > [@](#): > > And at the end of all that, the US handed Fallujah over to one of Saddam’s guys. It was all so fucking pointless. “In order to save the village, it was necessary to destroy it.” ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/233 "2004-05-03T16:56:44Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I just cannot stop crying. I am so angry I am shaking. How the FUCK can we make this stop?! I want our troops the hell out of there NOW, replaced by neutral United Nations forces who will oversee the remainder of the transition. How the motherfucking holy FUCK can anyone support the goddamned bastard Commander In Chief of our military NOW? He fucking knew about this months ago, yet not a goddamn thing has been done about it. It’s HIS army. It’s HIS repsonsibility. Where’s the anger and the outrage we should be hearing coming from him? Where are the abject apologies to the Iraqi people? Where is _anything_ from that fuckwad besides a bunch of lip service about how this “does not reflect the nature of the American people. That’s not the way we do things in America”? > > AS IF THAT’S GOING TO MATTER TO THEM NOW, YOU SHITSTAIN! > > !!!SCREEEEEEEEAM!!! My thoughts exactly. I’m still looking for profanities strong enough to describe my feelings, but I’m afraid that if I find them, the entire Eastern Seaboard will burst into flames. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/234 "2004-05-03T17:40:53Z")
> [@](#): > > By the way, who exactly publicized the pictures? How were they released to the press? Does someone know? A whistleblower. But the real disturbing story is that he had been blowing his whistle for months, and the military wouldn’t listen. It’s only when he came across actual photos of the acts that they had to stand up and take notice of what he was saying. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/235 "2004-05-03T17:56:58Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > A whistleblower. But the real disturbing story is that he had been blowing his whistle for months, and the military wouldn’t listen. It’s only when he came across actual photos of the acts that they had to stand up and take notice of what he was saying. Frightening, isn’t it. Almost as much as what I heard on the _Today_ show, that the commanding officer of the prison stated that there were areas of the prison _that were off limits to her_. How on earth does that go on w/in a military structure? ironic as hell to me, also, is the refrain from the usual suspects about how it’s only a few members, you shouldn’t condemn the entire group etc. etc etc. Odd, when they didn’t seem to accept that argument wrt terrorists w/in Muslim faith. Especially since with the all volunteer armed forces, one has to apply and _be accepted_ and trained etc. That’s one of the more frightening aspects to me. It may only be a few rotten apples (odd coincidence, then, that they should all be assigned to the same small group, eh? and apparently also on the same shifts), but the US forces are supposed to be the best of the best, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/236 "2004-05-03T18:31:22Z")
Question-as awful as this is-more in a moment-what would happen to Iraq if we just “pulled out?” I mean, the country seems to be a mess right now-I mean, wouldn’t we just be screwing them over? Sink or swim? As for the abuse…I don’t know what to say that hasn’t already been said. Except that I don’t think I have ever been truly disgusted and ASHAMED to be an American. Right now, I am. People can crow on and on and milk the crap about patriotism and anti-American leftists all they want. I don’t give a shit anymore. I feel like vomitting. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/237 "2004-05-03T19:04:23Z")
> [@wring](#): > > > [@Apos](#): > > > > A whistleblower. But the real disturbing story is that he had been blowing his whistle for months, and the military wouldn’t listen. It’s only when he came across actual photos of the acts that they had to stand up and take notice of what he was saying. > > Frightening, isn’t it. Almost as much as what I heard on the _Today_ show, that the commanding officer of the prison stated that there were areas of the prison _that were off limits to her_. How on earth does that go on w/in a military structure? Amnesty International has been screaming to be heard about [**widespread** abuses perpetrated by our military](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/02/iraq.prisoner.reax/index.html) for the past **year** and has been roundly ignored! > [@](#): > > But Nicole Choueiry, Amnesty’s Middle East spokeswoman, said the group had detailed “scores” of reports of ill-treatment over the past year but the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq had ignored them. However, in all fairness, from digging deeper and deeper following links within links to stories about this, it would appear as though CNN has been reporting about this since [mid-March](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/03/20/iraq.prison.abuse/index.html), and that an investigation was started back in January. > [@](#): > > **Soldiers charged with abusing Iraqi prisoners** > > From Barbara Starr > CNN > Saturday, March 20, 2004 Posted: 4:59 PM EST (2159 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (CNN) – Six U.S. soldiers have been charged with offenses related to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at an Iraqi prison, the U.S. Army said Saturday. > > The soldiers are charged with assault, dereliction of duty, cruelty and maltreatment, conspiracy and indecent acts with another, U.S. Army spokesman Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said. > > \ > > The soldiers, charged with violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice, have been suspended from duty since the investigation began [[in January](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/05/02/iraq.abuse.charges/index.html)]. > > \ > > Nine more military personnel and two civilian employees may also face severe administrative action, according to U.S. military sources. Eight of them are expected to receive letters of reprimand that effectively will end their military careers, the sources said. > > A civilian translator and a civilian interrogator are expected to be fired. > > The Army’s Criminal Investigative Division’s investigation concluded there is sufficient evidence to recommend charges. The final decision was the commander’s. > > CNN has previously reported that 17 personnel at the prison were relieved of their duties, including a battalion commander, a company commander, three noncommissioned officers, and 12 military police directly involved in guard duties. So why was this story apparently burried so deeply? CNN _did_ report on it, but where were the headlines? Did _anyone_ here know about this 6 weeks ago? How did this manage to get so heavily quashed, until it couldn’t be shoved in a corner or denied anymore due to the photographic evidence? > [@wring](#): > > ironic as hell to me, also, is the refrain from the usual suspects about how it’s only a few members, you shouldn’t condemn the entire group etc. etc etc. Odd, when they didn’t seem to accept that argument wrt terrorists w/in Muslim faith. Especially since with the all volunteer armed forces, one has to apply and _be accepted_ and trained etc. That’s one of the more frightening aspects to me. It may only be a few rotten apples (odd coincidence, then, that they should all be assigned to the same small group, eh? and apparently also on the same shifts), but the US forces are supposed to be the best of the best, aren’t they? I said that very thing in the letter I wrote to all of my Representatives in Congress: > [@](#): > > It won’t matter to our enemies that the small handful of monsters who did this don’t reflect the entirety of our military or our nation, any more than it mattered to Mr. Bush that the actions of 20 Muslim men on September 11, 2001 didn’t represent the entirety of the Muslim nations in the Middle East, let alone Iraq or the Iraqi people. This administration makes me ill. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/238 "2004-05-03T23:53:26Z")
More from your link, **Johnny** : > [@](#): > > “I hated Saddam so much that when the Americans came, I viewed them as liberators. I was happy and supported them. But soon it became clear that they are no liberators but occupiers,” he said. “I had seen how oppressed people were under Saddam and I refused to give in to oppression and injustice. We must fight oppression.” > > When al-Shweiri left American detention, he said his hatred for Saddam was replaced with one for America and two months ago he joined the al-Mahdi Army of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. > > Now with the future of the al-Mahdi Army uncertain, many militiamen are worried. The Americans have demanded the militia be disbanded and that al-Sadr, who is accused of involvement in the death of a rival cleric, turn himself in. > > “If Seyed Muqtada orders us to disband, we will. If he orders us to die, we will die. And if he tells us to live, we will live. We have nothing to do with the Americans and what they demand from us,” al-Shweiri said. How anyone could still support our continued occupation of their country and think it’s the best solution is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/239 "2004-05-04T02:49:00Z")
What are the alternatives to occupation? If we leave now, we leave the job unfinished, the nation still in ruins. Remember that in addition to the fighting, the US is rebuilding all sorts of things around the country, and protecting projects that are important to getting clean water and power to people around the country. SOMEONE has to keep doing these things. These photos make our job harder, and they make our leaders look clueless and negligent, with all the wrong priorities. But they don’t change the reality of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/240 "2004-05-04T04:08:38Z")
Some “jobs” are best left unfinished. **Leave no virtue unsullied, leave no Iraqi unscarred.** ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/241 "2004-05-04T05:25:35Z")
If you don’t shut up right now, this zombie will eat your BRAINS!!! [![](http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/misc/expired/t1land.image.jpg) ](http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/misc/expired/t1land.image.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829.md?page=13)