# US military in torture scandal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2004, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829 "2004-04-30T11:18:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/322 "2004-05-07T13:26:03Z")
> [@Svin](#): > > I do have some vague notion, or guess, that “hate speech” is racially degrading. Is that correct? I wish I could tell you, but I just don’t know. As far as I’m concerned, it is one of those worthless phrases — like “partial culpability” — that grants to its user enormous intellectual laziness. At any rate, I greatly appreciate the respectfulness of your response, your acceptance of responsibility, and your understanding of the point underlying my criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/323 "2004-05-07T13:30:02Z")
Shoulda been a “that’s” in " 'cos what ought to happen " Real men don’t preview ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/324 "2004-05-07T14:03:07Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > That’s what’s so infuriating about liberals who are liberal just because they don’t know what else to be. You know nothing about your own philosophy. Whatever you strip away from others, you strip away from yourself. In your myopia, you think you’re giving New Iklander just what he deserves by accusing him of hate speech, like some pissed off soccer mom who accuses the caretaker she hates of child molestation. You think you must become scum to fight scum. If hate speech comes to mean saying things that piss people off, then your post to me qualifies. So, back off. Hi Lib! Please post where I said I was or gave evidence to being a liberal? Or is it just that you get to decide who’s who? Here’s a tip. I never said I was. I feel how I feel on certain issues and therefore I DO know my own philosophy. IN fact, what a riot that my main philosophy is that we should NOT become scum to fight scum. Elsewise I wouldn’t EVEN BE IN THESE FUCKING WAR THREADS. I don’t think NI is using hate speech, but I do know he’s been an ass this whole thread…and you decide to come in and defend him. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/325 "2004-05-07T15:01:47Z")
Stop being dishonest, Jar. It is beneath you. I am not defending the man. I don’t even know the man and have not read any of his posts. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/326 "2004-05-07T15:11:14Z")
Way to ignore the whole of my post Lib. Care to explain how you know I"m a liberal because “I don’t know what else to be?” I’d love to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/327 "2004-05-07T15:28:09Z")
> [@Mr. Svinlesha](#): > > …it seems to me that **New Iskander’s** arguments are the equivalent of a Holocaust _promoter_. To me it sounds as if he’s saying, “_You’re damn right the Holocaust occurred. **And those Jew bastards got just what they deserved.** _” Like I said, you are a mentally unstable dimwit. > [@Mr. Svinlesha](#): > > I concede that I find **New Iskander’s** posts in this thread so revolting that I’ve lost grip on my rationality, and am reacting from the gut. And also a lying vindictive creep. You know quite well why are you smearing me in this thread without any semblance of logic and coherency. It is because I called you to account for some stupid statements you made in [the other thread before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4723282&postcount=142). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/328 "2004-05-07T15:36:47Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Like I said, you are a mentally unstable dimwit. That ain’t gonna get you anywhere, no matter how often you say it. **Svinlesha** is one of the two or three brightest and most eloquent posters on these boards, and you’re shaping up to be a murderous, twisted little wanna-be thug who loses himself in appallingly perverse fantasies in order to avoid confronting the truth. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/329 "2004-05-07T15:37:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sure, but it entirely evades the issue. Perhaps these were indeed troublemakers. Perhaps the were running a chador porno ring. Perhaps they were malcontents, fomenting protest. Perhaps they made nasty gestures to passersby. > > Or perhaps they actually were enemy combatants. > > It makes no difference! We, as a nation, are committed to standards of conduct and decency that allows _none_ of what we have seen to be acceptable, _regardless_ of the presumed crimes of the subjects. > > If it should prove, as it very well might, that the subjects of this repulsive behavior were more or less innocent, that can only make it that much worse. Congratulations on delivering yourself of such a large pile of steaming kagal. ‘Metamucil’ works, doesn’t it? But you forgot to flush. Again. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/330 "2004-05-07T16:25:51Z")
**Lib** : > [@](#): > > _At any rate, I greatly appreciate the respectfulness of your response, your acceptance of responsibility, and your understanding of the point underlying my criticism._ My pleasure. In all honesty, I did consider the point before even asking the question, but as I said, my revulsion got the better of me. **Capt.** : :smack: Finally, I get your handle. Good one! **Daniel** : > [@](#): > > _ **Svinlesha** is one of the two or three brightest and most eloquent posters on these boards, and you’re shaping up to be a murderous, twisted little wanna-be thug who loses himself in appallingly perverse fantasies in order to avoid confronting the truth._ Well, you got my vote! (For president, that is.) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/331 "2004-05-07T16:29:11Z")
> [@Mr. Svinlesha](#): > > **Daniel** :Well, you got my vote! It’s never too early to start campaigning. Daniel For A Better Tomorrow, If By Tomorrow You Mean Eight Years From Now ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/332 "2004-05-07T16:32:30Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Congratulations on delivering yourself of such a large pile of steaming kagal. God I love kagal. Especially at passover… wait, what? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/333 "2004-05-07T17:45:44Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > **Svinlesha** is one of the two or three brightest and most eloquent posters on these boards, and you’re shaping up to be a murderous, twisted little wanna-be thug who loses himself in appallingly perverse fantasies in order to avoid confronting the truth. What can I say? It is a well known fact that those accustomed to eat shit and chase it with urine show no appreciation for caviar and champaigne. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/334 "2004-05-07T17:47:51Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > wait, what? You need to read more. Reading builds up the vocabulary and widens the mental horizons. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/335 "2004-05-07T17:54:42Z")
**New Iskander** , here’s a certainty for you: You are a fool and a scoundrel, and your existence is a yellow stain upon the clean white sheet of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/336 "2004-05-07T18:18:15Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > You need to read more. Reading builds up the vocabulary and widens the mental horizons. I hear k-mart is having a sale on senses of humor. If you can take time away from your blood lust, stop by. By the way, [here](http://www.livejournal.com/users/ifitsnotlove/91525.html) are [some more](http://www.livejournal.com/users/ifitsnotlove/91901.html) heartwarming picture postcards and thoughts from our brave boys overseas, discussing in particular, how fun it is to kill ‘sand niggers’. Enjoy! I’m sure all of the people discussed were in some way Saddam’s Henchmen, right Iklander? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/337 "2004-05-07T18:35:05Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Enjoy! I’m sure all of the people discussed were in some way Saddam’s Henchmen, right Iklander? First link seem to describe some kind of battle episode, in soldier’s language. I always suspected that soldiers don’t express themselves like John Kerry does nowadays. Seconf link doesn’t lead anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/338 "2004-05-07T18:37:19Z")
[http://www.livejournal.com/users/ifitsnotlove/91901.html](http://www.livejournal.com/users/ifitsnotlove/91901.html) here you go sweetie. Enjoy the big laugh at firebombing an iraqis car for no reason! ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/339 "2004-05-07T19:07:53Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Enjoy the big laugh at firebombing an iraqis car for no reason! Don’t make things up. It was perfectly clear that the car was coming at the soldier and the soldier shot the driver and “rolled out of the way of the car”, which later crashed and burned. I’d like to deplore the use of ‘sand niggers’ term, but I guess I better not, because a mental case like ‘Mr. Svinlesha’ will compose another hare-brained treatise to prove that I am a hypocritical Nazi and a dyspepsic clown like ‘elucidator’ will compare it to a “carload of disinformation” or somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/340 "2004-05-07T19:19:03Z")
I beg you with all my soul to find in that IM conversation and those pictures where the soldier tells why he blew up the man’s car. Please note that the first link and the second link are independent stories so don’t use quotes from one to justify the other. As far as I can tell in the link I provided, this soldier simply laughs at firebombing this family’s car after killing the man. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/341 "2004-05-07T20:42:52Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > I beg you with all my soul to find in that IM conversation and those pictures where the soldier tells why he blew up the man’s car. > > Please note that the first link and the second link are independent stories so don’t use quotes from one to justify the other. > > As far as I can tell in the link I provided, this soldier simply laughs at firebombing this family’s car after killing the man. I beg you to show me where the firebombing is even alluded to. Those messages are not independent but appear to be sequential, separated by 28 hours, which makes sense because 12 hour patrol every day is mentioned. Both messages refer to a “killed guy”. First message say, “_my friend killed someone… shot him in the head like 15 times… rolled out of the way of the car… then he crashed and burned_”. No reason given. Second post show crashed and burned car. Go ahead, assume the worst. US soldier on patrol in Falluja sees a car driving down the road, walks out in the middle of the road, waits for the car to get close, discharges 15 rounds into the driver’s head, rolls out of the car way, watches gleefully the car crash and burn. Or something like that. Fucking cowboys. Are you going to start screaming hysterically right now, or a little later? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829.md?page=18)