# US military in torture scandal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2004, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829 "2004-04-30T11:18:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/342 "2004-05-07T20:50:43Z")
No hysterical screaming from me baby. Just wondering how long you’re going to keep up this shining white knight image of our American Soldiers. Look at that car. You think it was done with shoepolish? That fucker was on fire. Also, how about “the family brought us the bones of the guy we killed and asked if they could have the car…here’s what we did to the car” followed by: **HA HA HA** Sure sounds like the funniest thing ever over there. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/343 "2004-05-07T21:54:54Z")
[QUOTE=New Iskander] (latest New Iskander drivel snipped) [QUOTE] Ah…a month by any other name… Oops. Did I say that out loud? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/344 "2004-05-07T22:52:31Z")
that was cold. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/345 "2004-05-07T22:59:33Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > That fucker was on fire. Yes, the car “crashed and burned”, just as the IM said. Where did you get the idea of firebombing. > [@jarbabyj](#): > > Also, how about “…here’s what we did to the car” The real quote was “…here’s his car.” When you embellish, you shouldn’t use quotation marks. > [@jarbabyj](#): > > Sure sounds like the funniest thing ever over there. No, the funniest thing was that pick-up truck full of spent shell cases that were fired at those soldiers and your brain didn’t even register. HA HA HA ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/346 "2004-05-08T00:10:14Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Just wondering how long you’re going to keep up this shining white knight image of our American Soldiers. When you are reading IM of one unknown US soldier in Falluja - _who stands a very good chance of being killed as we speak_ - and inventing words and actions that are not there in order to make him look like a criminal, it is OK. When I speculate on culpability of Iraqi criminals in Abu Ghraib jail, it is a crime against humanity. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/347 "2004-05-08T05:13:15Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > When you are reading IM of one unknown US soldier in Falluja - _who stands a very good chance of being killed as we speak_ - and inventing words and actions that are not there in order to make him look like a criminal, it is OK. > > When I speculate on culpability of Iraqi criminals in Abu Ghraib jail, it is a crime against humanity. > > Why? Because you are speculating that the hypothetical acts of an Iraqi prisoner are a justification for torture. She is speculating that a young man has been encouraged by his leaders to enjoy killing. There is a lot of difference between the two, irrespective of accuracy. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/348 "2004-05-08T05:31:39Z")
Oh, oh, this is a good one, y’all: > [@](#): > > _I’d like to deplore the use of ‘sand niggers’ term, but I guess I better not, because a mental case like ‘Mr. Svinlesha’ will compose another hare-brained treatise to prove that I am a hypocritical Nazi…._ Get it? He condones torture and abuse, supports the guards who performed these acts at Abu Ghraib (and other, less well-known facilities) “_absolutely_,” thinks they did the right thing, believes Bush is “full of shit” for condemning them (and now, I would guess, the Secretary of Defense, the Joint Chiefs, and pretty much the rest of the administration as well)…. …but “deplores” the fact that some anonymous G.I. used the term “sand nigger.” Absolutely frikken unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/349 "2004-05-08T05:44:06Z")
**Tris** : May I advise? It’s no use talking to this fellow: he has all the sense of a rabid weasel suffering paranoid delusions of grandeur. No one here, for example, has accused him of “crimes against humanity.” His martyr-ship is just another one of his fevered fantasies. There’s no possibility of reasonable dialogue there: the lights are on, but no one’s home; his elevator doesn’t make all the way up to the top floor. If you attempt reasoned dialogue, you’re only opening yourself up for more insanity followed by more hysterical invective. Let it go. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/350 "2004-05-08T05:55:47Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > Because you are speculating that the hypothetical acts of an Iraqi prisoner are a justification for torture. > > She is speculating that a young man has been encouraged by his leaders to enjoy killing. > > There is a lot of difference between the two, irrespective of accuracy. I think it’s very clear that you support Iraqi criminals against US soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/351 "2004-05-08T05:58:03Z")
> [@Mr. Svinlesha](#): > > **Tris** :May I advise? It’s no use talking to this fellow: he has all the sense of a rabid weasel suffering paranoid delusions of grandeur. > > Let it go. I was the one who originally described his opinion as evil. I felt it only fair to show him why. But, I would point out to you, that a conversation with one person on line is not always intended to affect the opinions of that particular person. We are not alone, here. Tris. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/352 "2004-05-08T06:12:23Z")
Had to love the articles featuring Pfc. England’s family trying to excuse her for what she did. You’re not really a scapegoat when you did exactly what you’re accused of… Mind you, I don’t think she’s personally responsible for these abuses, nor do I think they were her idea. I have no trouble believing this was an intelligence thing, not a couple of deviants acting up, and if that’s true I hope this is pursued all the way up the line and that the people who tried to sweep this under the rug get what’s coming to them. Nonetheless, the excuses are repugnant because make light of awful deeds.\* The comparison to a fraternity intiation was especially stupid. In case my anger is somehow psychically redirected to her family, allow me to say this: people join a fraternity WILLINGLY and most expect a bit of hazing. Faked executions, rape and sodomy are beyond the pale, and these were PRISONERS, which by defintion means they didn’t choose to be there. On top of which, it sounds like most of them shouldn’t have been imprisoned! _I grant that there was a little ranting about this earlier, but her name was just released so it’s kind of happening again. See the cover of the Friday Chicago Sun-Times._ ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/353 "2004-05-08T07:59:01Z")
Defending the honor of private Lynch: > [@](#): > > The photographs show a 52-year-old former Baath Party official, Nadem Sadoon Hatab, who died at the detention center last June after a three-day period in which he was allegedly subjected to beatings and karate kicks to the chest and left to die naked in his own feces. > … > According to testimony in the case, Hatab was targeted for especially harsh treatment because he was believed to be in possession of Jessica Lynch’s 507th Army Battalion weapon and suspected of involvement in the ambush of her unit. [Death in Detention - Marine Reservists Face Charges in Iraqi Prisoner Death](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/World/Iraq_abuse_death_040507-1.html) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/354 "2004-05-08T13:26:58Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > I think it’s very clear that you support Iraqi criminals against US soldiers. Folks, seems to me like it’s time to trot out one of our pet acronyms: DNFTT ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/355 "2004-05-08T16:41:54Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > …a conversation with one person on line is not always intended to affect the opinions of that particular person. > > We are not alone, here. Let’s hope so. All I have done was asked a series of brutally unpleasant questions. > [@](#): > > 04-30-2004, 10:45 PM #93 > > I find it quite remarkable that nobody here have wondered, who might be those people under hoods with their extremities wired? > > What if it was Saddam under hood? Doesn’t Saddam deserve exactly such treatment in eternity? > > What if it was one of Saddam henchmen, getting an idea what his victims were going through? They have done such things to so many innocent people! > > Don’t Saddam henchmen deserve to be hooded and their genitals wired with alligator clamps? > > Wouldn’t that be the real Justice? Those were questions. In return, I got no answers, only hysterical smears, such as: > [@](#): > > Miserable little cunt. > > you have shown yourself to be such a vile piece of crap with no human compassion that I cannot help but tell you what a fucking twat you are being. > > Damn, how can you be so fucking devoid of basic human morality you miserable fucking shit. > > I guess now we have found out that there are semi-human cock monkeys like yourself that think it is fine to begin with. > > What kind of monster are you that you would advocate that kind of cruelty? > > That makes you a hypocrite and an asshole. > > … > > you pathetic little toad. > > I need to take a shower. (Helpfully compiled by ‘Mapache’) Later on I offered my version of events, somewhat justifying the actions of US jail guards while always stressing that it is only my interpretation. That triggered the following insanities: > [@](#): > > by ‘EddyTeddyFreddy’ > > After reading the latest New Iskander posts, I’m beginning to wonder whether Saddam Hussein, wherever he is, has a computer and Internet access. > [@](#): > > by ‘Mr. Svinlesha’ > > …it seems to me that New Iskander’s arguments are the equivalent of a Holocaust promoter. To me it sounds as if he’s saying, “You’re damn right the Holocaust occurred. **And those Jew bastards got just what they deserved**.” Later he tried to deny his own words, saying: > [@](#): > > No one here, for example, has accused him of “crimes against humanity.” His martyr-ship is just another one of his fevered fantasies. (It is clear that the ‘Mr. Svinlesha’ is not mentally stable, so I forgive him.) ‘jarbabyj’ didn’t asked questions about conduct of US soldiers in Falluja, but accused them of crimes: > [@](#): > > As far as I can tell in the link I provided, this soldier simply laughs at firebombing this family’s car after killing the man… > > Just wondering how long you’re going to keep up this shining white knight image of our American Soldiers. As I demonstrated those accusations were completely baseless. However, ‘jarbabyj’ was not criticized at all. I think it’s perfectly clear which side you are on. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/356 "2004-05-08T17:36:15Z")
I get it now! It’s all a gigantic whoosheroo! **New Isk** is doing a parody of what a Limbaugh-besotted maroon _might_ say! Tip off was that last bit, like **Jarbaby** is a Saddamite, Osama stooge…yeah, right, that’s plausible. And he didn’t give it away too soon, show his hand too early with a “Why do you hate America so much” or “Were you born a Muslim fanatic, or convert?” Cool job, **New Ish** , but I think its time to drop the joke, its wearing thin, don’t you think? Still…very droll! Even had me going there for a while! ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/357 "2004-05-08T19:04:34Z")
**New Iskander** , your _schtick_ is growing more than tedious. You NEED to sit down for an hour or so and read Major General Ghraib’s report on the 800th MP Brigade. When you have read it then I’ll pay attention to your howling. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/358 "2004-05-08T21:01:50Z")
Dunno if it’s just a schtick. His howling that everyone else is crazy, and only he is sane, in this thread, is something you’d hear regularly in the schizo ward - from the patients, not the doctors. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/359 "2004-05-08T21:23:46Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > You NEED to sit down for an hour or so and read report on the 800th MP Brigade I knew it was going to end with torture. I’ll read it. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/360 "2004-05-08T23:58:18Z")
Informing your self on a topic you are blathering on about is no torture. It is called the behavior of a responsible adult. We have more than enough ignorant opinions around here, on occasion mine included, but this thing has gone on for seven or eight pages with a fair amount of hysteria and more than enough gratuitous personal abuse. Read the damned report and then get back to us, friend **New Iskander**. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/361 "2004-05-09T00:36:49Z")
Since I don’t want to open another thread about how upset this makes me, how bad this is on so many levels, how the people running this country should have KNOWN atrocities ALWAYS get committed in war (just like there are ALWAYS civilian casualties and pictures of mothers holding dead children) - and that we needed to consider how this was going to spin - particularly in the Arab world - before we even went in, etc. I’ll just saunter in here to say. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!! FUCK! I’m not sure if I’d be more disappointed if it turned out Senior Administration Officials were Stupid and Naive or Evil. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829.md?page=19)