# US military in torture scandal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2004, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829 "2004-04-30T11:18:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/61 "2004-04-30T18:08:27Z")
Jeezus, get off the Michale jackson thing already or at least Pit each other someplace else. Some of us want to bitch about the disappointing behavior in the prison. Does the UCMJ still allow for execution? Because **Left Hand of Dorkness** given what I know of Arab culture that’s the only restitution acceptable to the victims & families & the Middle East at this point for these acts. Execution would take care of Point 1 Point 2 would allow an Iraqi to do it…or maybe The President himself, he certainly has no compunction about killing Americans and Texans (no matter how ill-informed or mentally competent). It is the ONLY way to address point 3. I wouldn’t suggest offering monetary compensation to the Arab families/victims unless a severed head of an offender accompanies it. Point 4 would be a 3 minute public square address for each offender with the gallows in the background. Point 5 is impossible while the US is involved in the system in any way. We now proudly wear the “irredeemable” stigma and are no better than the dictator we deposed. [disclaimer]The above may be irrational. At this time, Inigo Montoya is not rational.[/disclaimer] ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/62 "2004-04-30T18:10:33Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Indeed, it boggles the mind. “My boss never specifically told me or gave me any printed rulebook that said I wasn’t supposed to beat people up and sexually assault them while they are defenseless, so I thought it was OK.” That’s what this schmuck is essentially saying. Well, as **DoC** mentioned, it might turn out to be even worse than that – these guys were trying to “soften up” the prisoners, so that they would “break”. The actions were most likely encouraged by the inquisitors. > [@Gary Kumquat](#): > > I’m now getting past disbelief to the point of sheer incredulity. Short of somehow managing to accidentally nuke an Iraqi hospital, can we actually botch this glorious liberation campaign up any worse? It really does boggle the mind. I used to be of the opinion that, no matter how stupid it was to go into Iraq in the first place, it was imperative, both from a moral and practical perspective, to stay and finish the job, no matter the cost. Now I’m starting to think that we and they would be better off if we just left. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/63 "2004-04-30T18:21:08Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > My head is spinning. > > “I asked them for the rules and regs, man. But I didn’t get anything, so I sat on this guy an committed an indecent act.” > > 😕😕 As Rommel said, “In the absence or orders, go find something, sit on it, and commit an indecent act.” ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/64 "2004-04-30T18:22:20Z")
I am sickened beyond belief. Outraged. Terrified. Furious. > **[Contact Us | The White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/)** > **[Find and Contact Your Legislator](https://fiscalnote.com/find-your-legislator)** > > Enter your information and quickly identify and contact the elected officials currently representing you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/65 "2004-04-30T18:23:51Z")
> [@shelbo](#): > > I used to be of the opinion that, no matter how stupid it was to go into Iraq in the first place, it was imperative, both from a moral and practical perspective, to stay and finish the job, no matter the cost. Now I’m starting to think that we and they would be better off if we just left. That’s damn scary, and until now the idea that we need to cut and run has been awful to me, obviously untrue. But at this point, I’m having real trouble imagining even a change in our administration being sufficient to slow the bloodshed. I’m trying to wrap my head around the idea of a guy who runs a US prison in civilian life being involved in these actions. I hope that he’s just acting out fantasies here in Iraq, things he always wanted to do back home but was prevented from doing by his prison’s regulations. The alternative–that he was simply running the prison in the way he was accustomed–is even worse. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/66 "2004-04-30T18:33:33Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > And if it’s true that soldiers are not specifically instructed that torture is wrong and illegal, then by all means they should be, and BEFORE they are sent into combat. But by no means does that excuse torture at any level of the chain of command. Anyone who is too stupid or sociopathic to know that torture is wrong does not belong in the military. I think there are leaders in the U.S. military who think torture is just another tool of war. I never got any sense that the military was really all that repentant about the shit that was taught in the [School of the Americas](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec99/sotamericas_9-21.html) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/67 "2004-04-30T18:39:35Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I am sickened beyond belief. Outraged. Terrified. Furious. > > [http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/](http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/) > > [Find and Contact Your Legislator | FiscalNote](http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/) Yeah, I tried that when the Afghani torture stories broke. I got an acknowledgement letter from one of my Senator’s and got added to Tom Delay’s contribution list. The system works. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/68 "2004-04-30T18:48:54Z")
> [@Johnny G](#): > > And people here laughed at me. Who’s laughing now? The evidence is on your TV screen. Might as well put “Free Iraqis” on the endangered species list! Ya dolt. They were already on it! Are the prisoners in question common Iraqi civilians? Or are they combatants who might have information that could be extracted to prevent further bloodshed (needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few, etc)? I disapprove of torture, wrong and all, you know. But I’m not the one needing the info either… While this episode does show disregard for Iraqis and humanity in general, I still am not ready to make the leap of logic required to view this operation as the enthrall ment of a nation to the servitude of the US. i still don’t buy _that_. I for one am still giggling. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/69 "2004-04-30T18:51:47Z")
I have never been a multilateralist by any means, as some of you know. However, this case appears cut and dried. These filthy, vile, evil bastards must be drummed out of the US military dishonorably, and then handed over to be tried under the Geneva Convention. What they’ve done is nothing less than a war crime and an atrocity. They’ve sullied the name and reputation of the largely humane and honorable US military almost beyond immediate repair. People will be talking about this incident for **decades**. Full reparations to the prisoners and their families might help, but only a little. The specter of American military torture (not to mention incompetence. US soldiers under the command of CIVILIANS?! It beggars belief.) has been raised, and it will not go away any time soon. Bastards. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/70 "2004-04-30T19:05:31Z")
As of 3:00 p.m. EDT: [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) has Bush’s reaction as the top sidebar, while Michael Jackson gets prime billing. [boston.com](http://boston.com) (Boston Globe) has MJ as top item, then local Dem convention news, and no direct link on the front page. [foxnews.com](http://foxnews.com) gives MJ prime billing and links to the torture story as one of eight “latest headline” links. [bostonherald.com](http://bostonherald.com), thank Og, is MJ-free but is all local on the front page. The New York Times webpage has the Fallujah deal as the top story, the torture story second. Are you happy now, **Lib**? Dickhead. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/71 "2004-04-30T19:13:22Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > As of 3:00 p.m. EDT: > > [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) has Bush’s reaction as the top sidebar, while Michael Jackson gets prime billing. > > [boston.com](http://boston.com) (Boston Globe) has MJ as top item, then local Dem convention news, and no direct link on the front page. > > [foxnews.com](http://foxnews.com) gives MJ prime billing and links to the torture story as one of eight “latest headline” links. > > [bostonherald.com](http://bostonherald.com), thank Og, is MJ-free but is all local on the front page. > > The New York Times webpage has the Fallujah deal as the top story, the torture story second. This is not surprising :crinkle crinkle: since it is well known that Bush Enterprises has siezed control of the mental novacaine that is the US media, given it the strawman name “liberal media” (which moniker is debunked by Al Franken) to give the illusion that it is out to smear the GOP, and has been controlling the flow and spin of our info ever since. (where’s my ketchup?..ah, here we go :squirt: ) :dons foil hat: Now, please, unless it has to do with torturing the evil and much maligned Iraqis shush about it. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/72 "2004-04-30T19:21:40Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Yeah, I tried that when the Afghani torture stories broke. I got an acknowledgement letter from one of my Senator’s and got added to Tom Delay’s contribution list. > > The system works. That pisses me off. What jackasses. :mad: However, I don’t feel like I have any choice but to do it anyway. We have to be vocal about this. We just have to. So I am calling and writing every one of my representatives and begging them to move heaven and earth to get our military the fuck out of Iraq NOW. Those poor people. Can you even begin to imagine the uprising that would happen if a foreign military occupied our country with armed soldiers patroling the streets and then torturing and humiliating the prisoners they took along the way? HOLY FUCK! This madness MUST BE STOPPED. Iraq was not the imminent threat to the United States that was claimed a year ago. They are now. Absofuckinglutely unfuckingbelieveable. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/73 "2004-04-30T19:25:08Z")
Well, one could posit that the cruellest torture of all would be to subject the Iraqis to 24/7 Michael Jackson media coverage, but somehow I’m not feeling up to such jokes. Looking at the photos on the linked sites is sickening and horrifying. Looking at the smug faces of the torturers makes me want to smash them. Contemplating how this further degrades the US in the eyes of the world, and puts our citizens in and out of uniform at even greater risk, infuriates me. And, of course, this has taken place in Saddam Hussein’s torture prison. :rolleyes: How much more symbolic can it get?? You got any tinfoil and ketchup left? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/74 "2004-04-30T20:34:29Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > This is not surprising :crinkle crinkle: since it is well known that Bush Enterprises has siezed control of the mental novacaine that is the US media, given it the strawman name “liberal media” (which moniker is debunked by Al Franken) to give the illusion that it is out to smear the GOP, and has been controlling the flow and spin of our info ever since. > (where’s my ketchup?..ah, here we go :squirt: ) > :dons foil hat: > > Now, please, unless it has to do with torturing the evil and much maligned Iraqis shush about it. Unless that tin foil hat says “Mod” on it, it’s not your place to tell other posters what they may or may not post about. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/75 "2004-04-30T20:41:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Unless that tin foil hat says “Mod” on it, it’s not your place to tell other posters what they may or may not post about. Ooops. Didn’t mean to come off as a Jr. Mod. My bad. Just whining. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/76 "2004-04-30T20:55:48Z")
[The Master speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_121a.html) on the subject of what ketchup doea to alumium foil. I note that he discusses aluminum, and not tin, foil. I further note that he does not provide any data as to how hat functionality is affected. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/77 "2004-04-30T21:05:45Z")
> [@President Bush](#): > > “A year ago I did give the speech from the carrier saying we had achieved an important objective, accomplished a mission, which was the removal of Saddam Hussein,” Bush said. > > “As a result, there are no longer **torture chambers** or mass graves or rape rooms in Iraq,” the president said. From [here](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4871021/) - emphasis added. The irony is stunning. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/78 "2004-04-30T21:14:54Z")
Now there are pictures of British troops mistreating a prisoner being shown on UK TV - including pissing on him (Not confirmed real yet - not many details) Fuck it - I’m going to wrap my entire body in tinfoil and listen to Micheal Jackson tunes 'til my brain goes numb. Fuck-it and Double-Fuck-it ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/79 "2004-04-30T21:55:37Z")
> [@Capt B. Phart](#): > > Now there are pictures of British troops mistreating a prisoner being shown on UK TV - including pissing on him (Not confirmed real yet - not many details) [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk\_politics/3675215.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3675215.stm) ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829/80 "2004-04-30T22:00:27Z")
OK, now it’s time for a tin foil party. Get a load of the name of the UK general Chief of Staff. That’s right. Michael Jackson. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-in-torture-scandal/242829.md?page=5)