# US military weapons inscribed with secret bible codes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518 "2010-01-19T03:36:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/101 "2010-01-20T01:36:01Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Just for shits and giggles, I am going to hit the Bazaar tomorrow. They sell Chinese knock-offs of just about _everything_–including Trijicon ACOGs. I want to see if they copied that little detail. No, they come with optimistic snippets of advice, like fortune cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/102 "2010-01-20T01:36:25Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > The real travesty here would be if the effectiveness of American servicemen were undercut by a series of letters and numbers. It’s a pity Trijicon didn’t think about that before they instituted this head-up-ass policy. As [this article](http://afpakwar.com/blog/archives/3501) notes, > [@](#): > > U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the promotion of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan. It’s not hard to see how giving Iraqi or Afghani soldiers weapons with New Testament references on them could be construed as promotion of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/103 "2010-01-20T01:42:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Besides, if the Afghans don’t have access to New Testaments, they can’t translate the magic code, anyway. Do you think there is zero chance that this information–complete with translations and references–could possibly reach the Taliban and/or villagers in Afghanistan? Or that once it does, it will have zero effect on them? People in this thread are concentrating too much on what the “enemy” thinks. And not enough time thinking about how the enemy can use this information to gain support of the local populations and discredit NATO/ISAF efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/104 "2010-01-20T01:45:22Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > The interesting thing is that there are huge numbers of WWII (and even WWI) guns floating around the Middle East (and Afghanistan). Lee-Enfield rifles are especially popular, and many of them (Especially in Afghanistan) will be stamped **GRI** on the wristguard- _George Rex Imperator_ (King George, Emperor [of India].) HIJACK: I still owe you those pictures of the ones I bought last month! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/105 "2010-01-20T01:45:26Z")
> [@Martini Enfield](#): > > The interesting thing is that there are huge numbers of WWII (and even WWI) guns floating around the Middle East (and Afghanistan). Lee-Enfield rifles are especially popular, and many of them (Especially in Afghanistan) will be stamped GRI on the wristguard- George Rex Imperator (King George, Emperor [of India].) > > Does that mean the users condone Imperialism or support the British Crown? Completely the opposite. :rolleyes: A completely inept analogy. The **original issuers** of the weapons you mention, namely, the imperial British military, **DID** support the British Crown (obviously). And the “GRI” stamp on the weapons by the manufacturer symbolized that allegiance. Consequently, when the US military hands out weapons to its soldiers that are officially stamped by the manufacturer with Christian references, it’s not hard to see how that could be interpreted as symbolizing the US military’s allegiance to Christianity. Which is not really the impression we want to convey to the Muslim soldiers and civilians whose cooperation and alliance we’re seeking in Afghanistan and Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/106 "2010-01-20T01:48:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Is there a law against inventory numbers that relate to the bible? what if it was kJP4L3 ? If they simply used the numbers as part of their inventory system it would make these less of an issue. But when a spokesman for the company comes out and says the numbers have religious meaning and are there for the purpose of promoting religion it certainly gives good reason for people to be outraged. I am outraged on this one. I think the scopes should be recalled and replaced by a more politically responsible company. We should not be awarding contracts to companies that feel they place whatever messages they want on military equipment. If the military wants such a message they can request it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/107 "2010-01-20T03:09:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :rolleyes: A completely inept analogy. The **original issuers** of the weapons you mention, namely, the imperial British military, **DID** support the British Crown (obviously). And the “GRI” stamp on the weapons by the manufacturer symbolized that allegiance. > > Consequently, when the US military hands out weapons to its soldiers that are officially stamped by the manufacturer with Christian references, it’s not hard to see how that could be interpreted as symbolizing the US military’s allegiance to Christianity. > > Which is not really the impression we want to convey to the Muslim soldiers and civilians whose cooperation and alliance we’re seeking in Afghanistan and Iraq. The point I’m trying to make is that just because something is stamped on a gun doesn’t mean the user agrees with it. **But I still agree that in this case it’s a very silly thing for the manufacturer to be doing** and I don’t envy their PR department at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/108 "2010-01-20T03:14:06Z")
Question: Is this something the company routinely does on all their scopes, or just the ones made under military contract? If the former, then I think it’s no big deal, but that the government is entitled to tell them to knock it off. If the latter, then they should lose the contract and be barred from future contracts. ---
**Author:** ![YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e0b2c6/32.png) [@YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoureBeingABinkyBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/109 "2010-01-20T03:16:17Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > and the majority of readers would be familiar with his nickname. What is up with this? Well, I for one, was completely unfamiliar with Mikey as a nick-name for Michael, and I was grateful to have it clarified. Signed, Bill “Billy” P. ---
**Author:** ![YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e0b2c6/32.png) [@YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoureBeingABinkyBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/110 "2010-01-20T03:27:38Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Question: Is this something the company routinely does on all their scopes, or just the ones made under military contract?. Yes, all their stuff that is serialized anyway. The company is very upfront about their bible-thumping, as evidenced by their corporate website. The thing that struck me when I read this news article, is that the bible verses referenced all have to do with “light” and bringing light to darkness, etc… The sites and scopes they make are all designed for low light environments. So the verses fit with what the company’s technology is all about. I don’t think they’re just slapping any old bible verse on the stuff for some kind of psy-ops purpose. It’s just some corporate bible-thumping with unintended consequences. Distasteful, short-sighted (pardon the pun), yes. Nefarious, no. BTW, the company is the leader in their industry, at least as far as fixed night-sights go. They make really good stuff. I’m agnostic, I have their sights on my SA XD-9, and I’ll continue to give them my money in the future. Now if we could just get the ammo makers to etch little pigs into the copper jacketing… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/111 "2010-01-20T03:42:47Z")
> [@Martini Enfield](#): > > The point I’m trying to make is that just because something is stamped on a gun doesn’t mean the user agrees with it. Yeah, I understand that (and apologies for the over-snarky rolleyes and over-snarky comment), but I still think it doesn’t have much bearing on the situation under discussion. What the official markings on an old military-surplus rifle say about the beliefs espoused by its current owner is quite a different issue from what the official markings on a present-day military weapon say about the beliefs espoused by the government that issued it. The jihadi kooks who are constantly trying to persuade their fellow Muslims that US operations are really just a covert crusade for Christian conversion have now been handed a smoking gun, so to speak. Contrary to your suggestion, I think that “getting worked up” about this mishap is the best strategy we’ve got right now for dealing with it. If we make a fuss that this is unacceptable and violates our military’s prohibition against promotion of religion, we may be able to send a message that our society as a whole doesn’t condone military proselytizing. > [@Martini Enfield](#): > > But I still agree that in this case it’s a very silly thing for the manufacturer to be doing and I don’t envy their PR department at the moment. No argument there. [The Marines are said to be reconsidering the contract with Trijicon](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/01/19/2010-01-19_trijicon_company_contracted_by_marine_corps_inscribed_thousands_rifle_scopes_wit.html). And, of course, the irony of referencing the words of Jesus on military rifle sights is another whole level of headsmack. Did this really not strike anybody as a little bit incongruous?.. ---
**Author:** ![YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e0b2c6/32.png) [@YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoureBeingABinkyBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/112 "2010-01-20T03:44:23Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I am outraged on this one. I think the scopes should be recalled and replaced by a more politically responsible company. Really? Outrage? Sounds a little tight-wound to me. I was thinking it’s a little more along the lines of “DOH!”. As a taxpayer, I sure as hell don’t want to foot the bill to recall and replace all these things. The company makes very good stuff, and we have better things to spend our money on right now, besides political correctness on the battlefield. A simple “issue identified, issue corrected by no more bible code serialization” should suffice here. Al Qaeda has plenty of other reasons, both real and imagined, to want to kill the infidel. This isn’t exactly a call to arms. ---
**Author:** ![YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e0b2c6/32.png) [@YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoureBeingABinkyBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/113 "2010-01-20T03:45:57Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > No, they come with optimistic snippets of advice, like fortune cookies. Like “That wasn’t chicken” ---
**Author:** ![YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e0b2c6/32.png) [@YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoureBeingABinkyBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/114 "2010-01-20T03:50:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The jihadi kooks who are constantly trying to persuade their fellow Muslims that US operations are really just a covert crusade for Christian conversion have now been handed a smoking gun, so to speak. You’re absolutely correct, but let’s be honest, the damage is done, and no amount of corrective action or backpedaling on our part is going to make a difference. Score one for their side in the propaganda war. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/115 "2010-01-20T03:53:56Z")
> [@YBABB](#): > > the damage is done, and no amount of corrective action or backpedaling on our part is going to make a difference. Score one for their side in the propaganda war. On an own goal, no less. But I disagree that it’s impossible for corrective action to make a difference. Reasonable people do pay attention to such things, and it’s reasonable people that we’re really hoping to reach. ---
**Author:** ![YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e0b2c6/32.png) [@YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoureBeingABinkyBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/116 "2010-01-20T03:57:58Z")
😃 What a good thread. Thanks Jesus! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/117 "2010-01-20T03:58:30Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > No, they come with optimistic snippets of advice, like fortune cookies. Of course once you load it, 30 minutes later it’s empty again. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/118 "2010-01-20T04:00:48Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Contrary to your suggestion, I think that “getting worked up” about this mishap is the best strategy we’ve got right now for dealing with it. If we make a fuss that this is unacceptable and violates our military’s prohibition against promotion of religion, we may be able to send a message that our society as a whole doesn’t condone military proselytizing. That’s true, but the point I was suggesting was that if the information had never been publicised, no-one would be getting worked up about it, because I’m sure insurgents with captured weapons wouldn’t have been going through the serial numbers on the optical sights looking for Biblical references to get upset over. From what I can tell, the company in question has been doing it for a long time (so apparently it’s taken 30-odd years for anyone to notice), and I saw part of an interview with a US Military spokesman who pointed out that US currency has “In God We Trust” on it and that doesn’t stop it being readily acceptable in most places. Of course, you could rightly argue that there’s a huge difference between money and gunsights (and I’d agree with you), but I guess the larger point here is that this is only an issue because it’s been made into one, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/119 "2010-01-20T04:05:53Z")
> [@YoureBeingABinkyBoo](#): > > Really? Outrage? Sounds a little tight-wound to me. I was thinking it’s a little more along the lines of “DOH!”. > > As a taxpayer, I sure as hell don’t want to foot the bill to recall and replace all these things. The company makes very good stuff, and we have better things to spend our money on right now, besides political correctness on the battlefield. A simple “issue identified, issue corrected by no more bible code serialization” should suffice here. Al Qaeda has plenty of other reasons, both real and imagined, to want to kill the infidel. This isn’t exactly a call to arms. To me the issue identified is the company does not have the responsibility or foresight to be a contractor for out military. I don’t want any of my tax dollars to head in their direction. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/120 "2010-01-20T04:07:06Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > From what I can tell, the company in question has been doing it for a long time (so apparently it’s taken 30-odd years for anyone to notice), and I saw part of an interview with a US Military spokesman who pointed out that US currency has “In God We Trust” on it and that doesn’t stop it being readily acceptable in most places. But “In God We Trust” is non-specific. Even though it’s clearly meant to be the Christian one, a Muslim could take it to mean Allah. A “Follow Jesus !” Bible quote, OTOH… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518.md?page=7)