# US military weapons inscribed with secret bible codes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518 "2010-01-19T03:36:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/141 "2010-01-22T08:39:50Z")
Your sarcasm isn’t warranted. The company has admitted that this was the intent behind the markings, so why are you pretending to equate them with things that were not intentional religious messages? This is not coincidence, it is unambiguously deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/142 "2010-01-22T08:56:30Z")
Jesus packs heat, and then when the Roman soldiers are playing dice on his clothes, one of them wins it, picks it up, goes “What the fuck is this?” and then blows his head off… That would be cool. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/143 "2010-01-22T14:54:16Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Your sarcasm isn’t warranted. The company has admitted that this was the intent behind the markings, so why are you pretending to equate them with things that were not intentional religious messages? This is not coincidence, it is unambiguously deliberate. This entire thread is full of sarcasm, check the post immediately following your own. Mine is just from a different angle. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/144 "2010-01-22T15:41:24Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Your sarcasm isn’t warranted. The company has admitted that this was the intent behind the markings, so why are you pretending to equate them with things that were not intentional religious messages? This is not coincidence, it is unambiguously deliberate. So? ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/145 "2010-01-22T16:16:10Z")
If you’re going to put religious messages on weapons. [Do it BIG!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M_GHIuiNiM) (3 mins in) ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/146 "2010-01-22T16:19:15Z")
I’m watching the Military Channel now about Chaplains currently serving in combat areas in Iraq. Part of their duties include visiting with the locals and discussing issues, all the while wearing their BDUs with a crucifix embroidered where the rank insignia would typically be placed. Is this practice equally offensive? If so, where is the outrage? If not, where is that line drawn? (Sorry if this is deemed a hijack) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/147 "2010-01-22T16:31:47Z")
Muslims, and Jews, and atheists, or whatever carry these weapons with bible verses on them. Do you see many Muslims, Jews or atheists with crucifixes embroidered where their rank insignia would typically be? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/148 "2010-01-22T16:38:49Z")
The Holy Hand Grenade is still OK, though, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/149 "2010-01-22T16:49:58Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > How can you tell? Is there something that _is_ obviously a batch number marked elsewhere on the item? The verses on each model are the same. Every ACOG has the JN8:12, every Reflex Sight has the CORsomething:something. Etc. So they were just added to the mold or casting die or whatever it is they make the housings with. There is no functional purpose for the code. The serial number is ingraved elsewhere on the scope, and the part number isn’t anything close to that. Part numbers for those ACOGs are usually like TAS01 or something like that. And the military nomenclature for the DOS ACOG is M150. I am really curious what these “field kits” are that Trijicon wants to send us. I just used a file and some paint. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/150 "2010-01-22T16:52:02Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > And especially if it’s Invaders vs. Insurgents. Because there can’t _possibly_ be any reason to be there other than wanting to wipe out Islam. Do you get something out of over-simplifying things? The basic reality is that there are fundamental differences in the underlying principles of the two cultures, and both of them are convinced that their culture is superior to the other. That is pretty much how a Holy War works. The Cold-War was a Holy War for instance. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/151 "2010-01-22T16:59:31Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Muslims, and Jews, and atheists, or whatever carry these weapons with bible verses on them. Do you see many Muslims, Jews or atheists with crucifixes embroidered where their rank insignia would typically be? The show was focused on one guy so I really can’t answer that question. Regardless of personal convictions, I am specifically asking if this outward display of religious imagery, in direct view of the local populace, is equally bad or worse? The chaplain is shoving that crucifix in the face of everyone he speaks with while the coded reference to the bible verse is buried on the side of the ACOG sight. The insignia is provided by the govt, denoting the wearer as a man of his god and a member of the US military. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/152 "2010-01-22T18:12:26Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > The show was focused on one guy so I really can’t answer that question. Seriously? You can’t hazard a guess as to whether or not a Muslim wears a cross? > [@](#): > > The insignia is provided by the govt, denoting the wearer as a man of his god and a member of the US military. First of all, the chaplain is choosing to wear that insignia, by joining the army and being a chaplain. Second of all, I’m pretty sure the chaplain isn’t in the business of killing people. A chaplain wearing a crucifix is perfectly understandable. A bible reference on a weapon, that all, regardless of beliefs, carries is a stupid idea, granted more of a PR issue than anything else … I don’t think atheists are going to start bursting into flames because they have John 3:14 (or whatever) stamped on their guns … but it’s still a stupid thing to have done. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/153 "2010-01-22T18:29:14Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Seriously? You can’t hazard a guess as to whether or not a Muslim wears a cross? I assumed you were being rhetorical. My bad. > [@](#): > > First of all, the chaplain is choosing to wear that insignia, by joining the army and being a chaplain. Second of all, I’m pretty sure the chaplain isn’t in the business of killing people. You missed my point. Several earlier posts talk about the Army and how it is against their own rules to proselytize or encourage any religion. Here is a case where military members are wearing US Gov issued crucifix insignias as they are walking amongst the local Muslims trying to win hearts and minds so it seems. Yet nary a whimper from the same crowd suggesting that soldiers rip off their ACOGs so as not to offend their fellow soldiers or the people in which they are attempting to kill. > [@](#): > > A chaplain wearing a crucifix is perfectly understandable. A bible reference on a weapon, that all, regardless of beliefs, carries is a stupid idea, granted more of a PR issue than anything else … I don’t think atheists are going to start bursting into flames because they have John 3:14 (or whatever) stamped on their guns … but it’s still a stupid thing to have done. I agree, the verse however had been placed by the manufacturer, the crucifix on the other hand is made for and distributed by the military to its chaplain corps which should be equally offensive to those so offended by the JN3:16 or whatever was on the sight. Yet, on that issue, they are silent. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/154 "2010-01-22T18:41:37Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Do you get something out of over-simplifying things? > > The basic reality is that there are fundamental differences in the underlying principles of the two cultures, and both of them are convinced that their culture is superior to the other. That is pretty much how a Holy War works. The Cold-War was a Holy War for instance. Meh. By that definition, pretty much \*any \*war is a holy war. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/155 "2010-01-22T18:42:50Z")
**JXJohns** , I think you’re giving your point too much credit. The army isn’t prostylizizizizniing .. (I can never spell that) by having a chaplain where a cross as insignia. The army is allowing the chaplain to serve in the army … as our Constitution makes perfectly legal … and he wears a cross as part of his belief, essentially. I’m sure an Imam in the armed services wouldn’t be wearing a cross as his insignia. > [@JXJohns](#): > > … the crucifix on the other hand is made for and distributed by the military **to its chaplain corps** … I bolded the important part. The army doesn’t issue crucifixes to everyone and tells them they have to wear them. But having bible references on weapons that everybody (I know, I know, within limits) uses is tantamount to that. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/156 "2010-01-22T18:46:55Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > **JXJohns** , I think you’re giving your point too much credit. Probably. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/157 "2010-01-22T18:50:42Z")
Just for the sake of argument, what if a weapons manufacturer didn’t stamp coded messages on their merchandise, but had a priest sprinkle holy water and say a blessing over each item, or some similar religious ritual? Would anyone feel compelled to piss on their weapons, just to remove the Holy? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/158 "2010-01-22T19:00:52Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I agree, the verse however had been placed by the manufacturer, the crucifix on the other hand is made for and distributed by the military to its chaplain corps which should be equally offensive to those so offended by the JN3:16 or whatever was on the sight. Yet, on that issue, they are silent. Because the Army does NOT issue crucifixes to the Chaplain Corps. Your premise is incorrect, so your entire point is invalid. The cross is not a symbol of the Chaplain Corps, it is a symbol worn by _Christian_ Chaplains. Jewish chaplains, muslim chaplains, etc wear insignia relevant to _their_ beliefs. Christianity is not the official religion of the US Army. No person is forced to wear a cross. Even the Chapel is a religiously neutral building. There is no cross at the top of a Chapel. The schedule of worship services at a Chapel includes all religions. Now on to your story about the Chaplain walking around town wearing the cross on his uniform. It is no secret that many Americans are Christian and that many religious leaders (Chaplains) in the US Military are Christian. So for one particular Christian Chaplain to sport his cross should not come as a surprise to anyone, least of all Afghani citizens. I actually like the idea of him sitting down so that people from different theological perspectives can get past their differences and start working on the water issues or electricity or agriculture or security in the area. What would come as a shock is if EVERY Chaplain (not just the Christian ones) and EVERY soldier was issued a cross to wear on patrol. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/159 "2010-01-22T19:02:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Just for the sake of argument, what if a weapons manufacturer didn’t stamp coded messages on their merchandise, but had a priest sprinkle holy water and say a blessing over each item, or some similar religious ritual? > > Would anyone feel compelled to piss on their weapons, just to remove the Holy? Where is the evidence that pissing on a blessed item will remove the blessing? I wouldn’t bother. It’s like trying to wash the Kosher off your food before eating it… ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518/160 "2010-01-22T19:23:08Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Hell, if I really wanted the Juju…I would construct a sight out of a laminate of 32 GB Flash Electromagnetic Materials. Upload every known sacred text from every religion, as well as their books of war onto the sights of my weapon, can’t be too careful… Got Mojo? I guess you could call it the Universalist Sight. Better to be syncretic and inclusive rather than exclusionary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-military-weapons-inscribed-with-secret-bible-codes/525518.md?page=9)