# US nationals with dual citizenship - was it difficult? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 8, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901 "2010-11-08T13:55:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/21 "2010-11-08T20:22:53Z")
After I took my Citizenship, Immigration, & Refugee Law class in law school, I started paying a little more attention to citizenship threads here on the SDMB, and I’ve come to the conclusion that it is the one area of law with the most misconceptions, the most armchair experts who are ready and willing to give bad advice, and, for whatever reason, the most moderator leeway in asking for and giving legal advice on the board. This is a shame, because a misunderstanding of citizenship law gleaned from a message board can change your life for the worse. To the OP: **Shagnasty** is mistaken. The U.S. really really doesn’t care whether you have dual citizenship. And while they don’t officially endorse it, some of their policies encourage it in a practical sense, by making travel easier, giving greater political power in other nations, and (very rarely) changing tax consequences. Some nations, on the other hand, bend over backwards to get their citizens living in America to attain U.S. dual citizenship. I don’t have a cite offhand, but I know Mexico has long encouraged its citizens living legally in the U.S. to get dual citizenship, so they can vote and sway policy in Mexico’s favor. I’ve posted in probably a dozen threads on the topic of United States citizenship law, but here are a few where I’ve jumped in to correct somebody: [Dual Citizenship and Federal Office](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551276) [Can a person born by Caesarean section be the US President?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=538153) [Bricker misstated the law of dual citizenship](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=503144) \<– in a staff report! ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/22 "2010-11-08T21:17:39Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I don’t think that’s true. Senator McCain was born outside the United States to two U.S. citizen parents, and I don’t think there was any serious objection to him as a candidate for President of the U.S. He may even be a citizen of Panama as well as a U.S. citizen. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone which is US territory. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/23 "2010-11-08T21:22:10Z")
I use a US passport for travel. A Canadian passport is valid for only five years, is a pain to get (you need “guarantors”) and it takes forever. You have to send in your citizenship card and, should it get lost in the mail, there is no way to get another (you have to prove you are a citizen and the only way is with a citizenship card, as I read their website). When the American border guard asks me what is my status in Canada, I always say “dual citizen” and he is unfazed. Crossing in to Canada, they seem perfectly happy to see my US passport and Canadian citizenship card. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/24 "2010-11-08T21:26:31Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#): > > He was born in the Panama Canal Zone which is US territory. It was an unincorporated territory of the U.S., and children born there were not U.S. citizens unless at least one parent was a U.S. citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/25 "2010-11-08T21:32:01Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I use a US passport for travel. A Canadian passport is valid for only five years, is a pain to get (you need “guarantors”) and it takes forever. You have to send in your citizenship card and, should it get lost in the mail, there is no way to get another (you have to prove you are a citizen and the only way is with a citizenship card, as I read their website). When the American border guard asks me what is my status in Canada, I always say “dual citizen” and he is unfazed. Crossing in to Canada, they seem perfectly happy to see my US passport and Canadian citizenship card. I may try this, although I still find myself paranoid about losing my citizenship card. I’d rather lose my passport, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/26 "2010-11-08T21:45:38Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > You have to send in your citizenship card and, should it get lost in the mail, there is no way to get another (you have to prove you are a citizen and the only way is with a citizenship card, as I read their website). Not following that. Their form specifically has a section to re-apply when your citizenship certificate is lost or stolen: [Application for a citizenship certificate](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/CIT0001E5.asp) - see section 2 of the flow-chart. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/27 "2010-11-09T10:59:46Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > IMHO, In comparison to some other countries, the US is pretty relaxed about this sort of thing. Indians cannot acquire dual citizenship, period. Mexico used to have the same law, although they changed it a few years back - my cousin was a dual US/Mexico citizen and when he turned 18, the Mexican government insisted he lose one or the other. He went with Mexico and lost his American citizenship. Shortly afterward, they changed their law to allow dual citizenship, my cousin applied to have his US citizenship reinstated, and it wasn’t a problem. My (American) aunt lived in Mexico for forty years and never got Mexican citizenship because she would have had to forfeit her American citizenship in the process. The US doesn’t make people give up their native citizenships in order to acquire US citizenship derived from marrying an American national. Well, then, if we’re ahead of India and Mexico in this regard, then I should just rescind my statement. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > How is “precious” to prefer that persons who want to be citizens have their primary allegiance to this country? It’s just that I think they’re getting too much up in your business, and they’re wasting scads of time and money chasing after boogieman that aren’t there in anywhere near the quantity to justify the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/28 "2010-11-09T12:00:55Z")
> [@tetranz](#): > > I don’t think there has ever been any question about the other citizenship status of a new US citizen other than the assumption that they make the pledge with some seriousness. That doesn’t mean that they’re expected to recind other citizenships. Ah, but the confusion arises in part from the text of the oath of allegiance which must be sworn when you accept US citizenship: “I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen…” Note that it’s the oath, not the much-shorter pledge. While that doesn’t directly affect US citizens getting a second citizenship, who never have to take this oath, “renouncing all loyalty to other sovereignities” would appear to be saying that you can’t acquire US citizenship without either renouncing the prior one or lying when you take the oath. For people who take their oaths seriously, that’s a big obstacle to the acquisition of US citizenship as a dual citizenship. Of course, part of the problem here is that there are so many things in the US which don’t mean what a foreigner would think they mean. I figure that if you still think that “how are you?” means “please tell me how you’re feeling today”, “african-american” means anything other than “black by US standards” and “oath” doesn’t mean what it means back home, you’re not ready to become an American citizen - you still don’t think like one and still think of “home” as a place which isn’t the US. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/29 "2010-11-09T15:47:40Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Not following that. Their form specifically has a section to re-apply when your citizenship certificate is lost or stolen: [Application for a citizenship certificate](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/CIT0001E5.asp) - see section 2 of the flow-chart. It takes about a million years and a ton of documentation to get the first time. When you get it, they are very clear about how you had better not freakin’ lose it. I do not want to think about it getting lost. Sending it off to the passport office gives me the willies. Traveling with it is nearly as bad. Keeping it in a concrete bunker is almost ok. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/30 "2010-11-09T15:47:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The practical effects are that you typically have to be a US citizen _first_; you can’t become a naturalized US citizen and retain your prior citizenship, in most cases. If you want dual citizenship you have to do it the other way around. I don’t think this is the case - while the naturalization oath requires me to reject all allegience to foreign countries, I don’t think the act of taking US citizenship does anything to alter my status as a British citizen. I’m not sure if there is any way to voluntarily give up British citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/31 "2010-11-09T16:04:43Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > It takes about a million years and a ton of documentation to get the first time. When you get it, they are very clear about how you had better not freakin’ lose it. I do not want to think about it getting lost. Sending it off to the passport office gives me the willies. Traveling with it is nearly as bad. Keeping it in a concrete bunker is almost ok. I’ve had to get a citizenship certificate for a family member. I didn’t think it was that difficult - took a while, but I just thought it was par for the course. And, putting together the documents didn’t seem very hard. YMMV, of course. That said, the citizenship card is currently safely tucked away in a safe deposit box at the bank. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/32 "2010-11-09T16:07:12Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I don’t think this is the case - while the naturalization oath requires me to reject all allegience to foreign countries, I don’t think the act of taking US citizenship does anything to alter my status as a British citizen. I’m not sure if there is any way to voluntarily give up British citizenship. I thought Britsh residents with the franchise were properly referred to as _subjects_, having once been subjected to a long boring lecture by an irritated Brit on the issue. Was she wrong? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/33 "2010-11-09T16:15:35Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I thought Britsh residents with the franchise were properly referred to as _subjects_, having once been subjected to a long boring lecture by an irritated Brit on the issue. Was she wrong? Depends when she gave you the lecture. Having mailed my passport in for renewal, I cannot check when it changed, but off the top of my head we’ve been citizens since 1982. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/34 "2010-11-09T17:09:17Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Well, then, if we’re ahead of India and Mexico in this regard, then I should just rescind my statement. I sense sarcasm. Do India and Mexico fail to meet your standards as legitimate nations? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/35 "2010-11-09T17:25:37Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > I think the US is just way too precious with their shit. It just oozes hegemony, and it’s ugly. I really don’t understand what you mean. The U.S. is really quite casual by comparison with many countries, in this area. As has been said many times, they really don’t care if you’re a dual citizen, except they warn you it could create complications in your life. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/36 "2010-11-10T01:35:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’ve had to get a citizenship certificate for a family member. I didn’t think it was that difficult - took a while, but I just thought it was par for the course. And, putting together the documents didn’t seem very hard. YMMV, of course. > > That said, the citizenship card is currently safely tucked away in a safe deposit box at the bank. 🆒 Ah, you weren’t the one expecting deportation forthwith. This may explain the unnatural attachment us immigrants have. Plus the damn thing is so small and lose-able. Where the hell is mine, anyway? Now I’ll never sleep tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/37 "2010-11-10T09:49:01Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I thought Britsh residents with the franchise were properly referred to as _subjects_, having once been subjected to a long boring lecture by an irritated Brit on the issue. Was she wrong? Sort of. We’re citizens of the U.K., and subjects of the Monarch. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/38 "2010-11-10T12:27:34Z")
My two-year-old daughter is a dual citizen of the US and Taiwan and has permanent residency (like a green card) in Japan. Japan only recognizes one nationality, so we picked US. However, that is only as far a Japan is concerned. We take both the US and Taiwanese passports when we travel. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/39 "2010-11-10T13:11:38Z")
Similar to **TokyoPlayer** , my son is a US citizen by birthright through me, and is Japanese through his mother. If it were up to the US, he could be a dual citizen forever, but Japan makes you choose at majority (age 20). They do not allow dual citizenships. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901/40 "2010-11-10T18:16:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That says it’s illegal for citizens to enter or leave the US without _carrying_ a valid US passport. It doesn’t say anything about showing it. Well there’s [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US-border-notice.jpg) helpful sign for those walking into Point Roberts, WA from Canada. I thought this sign was rather brusque, and not at all welcoming, but this concerned mainly how Canadians and other foreigners would perceive it. Now that I look at it again, I wonder if they also mean to address American citizens who happen to re-enter the country without going through an inspection station? Probably, yeah. We could be smuggling contraband into Point Roberts! In short, I think everyone has to show some kind of ID; but it might not have to be a passport per se. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-nationals-with-dual-citizenship-was-it-difficult/559901.md?page=3)