# US Navy Hospital Ships **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 15, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110 "2010-01-15T19:28:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/1 "2010-01-15T19:28:27Z")
After reading about the Hospital ship being sent to Haiti I looked it up and saw that it carried no ordnance and firing upon it was a war crime. Ok makes sense, but what about small arms. Does the vessel carry any weapons on board at all. Is that Master at Arms armed at least. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/2 "2010-01-15T19:41:25Z")
Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/3 "2010-01-15T19:47:39Z")
Small Arms are not permitted on designated Hospital Ships claiming Geneva protections. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/4 "2010-01-15T19:58:54Z")
> [@pan1](#): > > Small Arms are not permitted on designated Hospital Ships claiming Geneva protections. I guess I can see the point of no arms meaning NO arms aboard a hospital ship so it can (presumably) enjoy not being shot at. Once you provide a loophole who knows where it ends. That said I would think there is a real need for security aboard such a ship. What if it is treating hostile soldiers? Or what if they get a thousand Haitians in there and the Haitians decide to ransack the ship? (Not saying they would…just using Haitians as that is where it is going next…insert any group you care to.) ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/5 "2010-01-15T20:05:50Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I guess I can see the point of no arms meaning NO arms aboard a hospital ship so it can (presumably) enjoy not being shot at. Once you provide a loophole who knows where it ends. > > That said I would think there is a real need for security aboard such a ship. What if it is treating hostile soldiers? Or what if they get a thousand Haitians in there and the Haitians decide to ransack the ship? (Not saying they would…just using Haitians as that is where it is going next…insert any group you care to.) Security is provided by the destroyers and cruisers nearby. Just because seamen can’t carry guns on the ship doesn’t mean the guys guarding the gangplank don’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/6 "2010-01-15T20:13:25Z")
> [@pan1](#): > > Security is provided by the destroyers and cruisers nearby. > > Just because seamen can’t carry guns on the ship doesn’t mean the guys guarding the gangplank don’t have them. So their only defense is choppering a bunch of marines which is what the destoryer is their for. I just find it odd that there is not a lockbox somewhere on board with at least a pistol for the MaA to have ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/7 "2010-01-15T20:23:29Z")
> [@pan1](#): > > Small Arms are not permitted on designated Hospital Ships claiming Geneva protections. This is not correct; the 1949 Geneva Convention (second), does not prohibit the crew of hospital ships (that are entitled to protection as such) from carrying small arms for their own defense or to keep order. See the text of Art. 35, below. Since the text of the '49 convention is the current source of the international law rule that hospital ships are to be protected from attack, (and as there is no modification in the 1977 AP), it seems clear that small arms are consistent with hospital ship status under the GC. So while others have discussed the USN practice (something I know nothing about), it isn’t a legal requirement that hospital ships have no weapons at all. Art 35. The following conditions shall not be considered as depriving hospital ships or sick-bays of vessels of the protection due to them: (1) The fact that the crews of ships or sick-bays are armed for the maintenance of order, for their own defence or that of the sick and wounded. (2) The presence on board of apparatus exclusively intended to facilitate navigation or communication. (3) The discovery on board hospital ships or in sick-bays of portable arms and ammunition taken from the wounded, sick and shipwrecked and not yet handed to the proper service. (4) The fact that the humanitarian activities of hospital ships and sick-bays of vessels or of the crews extend to the care of wounded, sick or shipwrecked civilians. (5) The transport of equipment and of personnel intended exclusively for medical duties, over and above the normal requirements. [http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/370?OpenDocument](http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/370?OpenDocument) ---
**Author:** ![whorfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@whorfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whorfin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/8 "2010-01-15T20:38:49Z")
> [@pan1](#): > > Security is provided by the destroyers and cruisers nearby. Again, this seems just plain wrong (as a matter of the law of war). The Commentary to GC(II) art. 30 strongly suggests that a hospital ship will lose its protected status if escorted by warships. Bolding mine. Of course, in the context of haiti, the law of war isn’t the principal issue–since a humanitarian aid mission is not an armed international conflict–and in any event, looters or disorganized militias will probably not respect (or even understand) the protected status of a hospital ship given by GC(II). So in such a setting, you’d expect to see warship escorts–it just means the hospital ship isn’t entitled to protected status under the Geneva Convention (but as I point out, in the context of humanitarian aid rather than a war, losing that status is probably irrelevant in practical terms) > [@](#): > > ’ Paragraph 4 ’ specifies that during and after an engagement, hospital ships will act at their own risk. . . > Even if hospital ships do not hamper the combatants, in the sense of the preceding paragraph, they may be hit accidentally by shots wide of the mark. > In 1937, the question was raised as to whether a hospital ship should not waive the protection of the Convention when being escorted by warships since it would then no longer be possible to stop and search it. In fact, that was the position taken by certain countries during the Second World War (3). **A hospital ship is obviously bound to lose its immunity under the Convention if it is being escorted by warships** (4), except when the escort vessels are minesweepers in order to ensure a safe passage. One would, however, have to be able to prove the fact conclusively, which would most often be impossible. In the course of their duties, hospital ships are often obliged to get in touch with warships, and one of their tasks is to follow naval squadrons. It would be [p.181] difficult to determine objectively whether a hospital ship was accompanying warships or was being escorted by them. > On the basis of the opinion expressed by the experts in 1937 one may therefore formulate the following principle as being necessary and sufficient to solve this problem and any others which may arise in connection with the interpretation of the present paragraph: if hospital ships draw near to warships, they do not lose the protection of the Convention but they may in fact expose themselves to danger. > The expression “act at their own risk” must be understood in that sense. In such a case, the enemy would never be authorized to fire deliberately on a hospital ship, but the latter must take the responsibility for any damage which it may incur accidentally. [http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/COM/370-580039?OpenDocument](http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/COM/370-580039?OpenDocument) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/9 "2010-01-15T21:32:27Z")
I’ll see if I can contact a friend of mine who was posted on the _Mercy_ (sister ship to the _Comfort)_ during the first Gulf War for a definitive answer. Meanwhile, I seem to recall him saying something about military police (or the whatever the Navy calls them) providing security on board. As they were treating Kuwatis and Iraqis there was some need to keep things peaceful. From what I recall, they did not have any real trouble, mostly people shouting at each other from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/10 "2010-01-16T00:36:41Z")
Just a note about the type of ship: A hospital ship for the US is a USNS, not USS, meaning it’s not actually a military vessel. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/11 "2010-01-16T07:51:13Z")
HRMMM… Good question… I have heard HM’s (hospital corpsman) talk about no deck watches on the ship but I never thought about the ship itself having no small-arms. I have only seen supply ships and never a hospital ship up close. They all had defensive weapons like CIWS, etc. At one point they may have had none but the Gulf Wars and 9/11 changed all that. I have sent a plethora of emails to Navy buddies about this. I’ll get an officious response soon enough assuming Broomstick does not beat me too it. 🙂 As I look through available pictures via the web I see no CIWS or anything. So, wow, it is entirely possible that there is no small-arms on board. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/12 "2010-01-16T08:04:24Z")
I contacted my friend’s wife (he works nights) - according to her the shipboard security is “a few Marines with guns” who fill the same role as security guards in a civilian hospital. That, and to take care of any enemy combatants who, after treatment, become POW’s. Any weapons that do make it on board with a patient are locked up by the sergeant at arms. Security/defense of the actual ship is provided by the naval vessels accompanying the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/13 "2010-01-16T19:50:12Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > HRMMM… > > Good question… I have heard HM’s (hospital corpsman) talk about no deck watches on the ship but I never thought about the ship itself having no small-arms. I have only seen supply ships and never a hospital ship up close. They all had defensive weapons like CIWS, etc. At one point they may have had none but the Gulf Wars and 9/11 changed all that. > > I have sent a plethora of emails to Navy buddies about this. I’ll get an officious response soon enough assuming Broomstick does not beat me too it. 🙂 > > As I look through available pictures via the web I see no CIWS or anything. So, wow, it is entirely possible that there is no small-arms on board. I believe all USNS ships are crewed by civilians, that is the deck and engine room crews. Security is Marines and the Hospital by either civilians or the Navy. ---
**Author:** ![YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e0b2c6/32.png) [@YoureBeingABinkyBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoureBeingABinkyBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/14 "2010-01-16T23:17:52Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > I believe all USNS ships are crewed by civilians Incorrect. USNS ships are owned and operated by the Military Sealift Command, and crewed by a mix of both civilian mariners and US Navy personnel. As to the OP’s question, small arms are carried onboard USNS hospital ships by their embarked Marine Corps security detachments. This has no bearing on the ship’s status, under international law, as a Hospital Ship . [http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00p/comfortinNY.htm](http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00p/comfortinNY.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/15 "2010-01-17T02:16:23Z")
[CNN.com](http://CNN.com) says USNS _Comfort_ is en route to Haiti and should arrive Jan. 21. Here’s the Wiki article on the ship; check out the general characteristics at the bottom: [United States Naval Ship - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS) Comfort (T-AH-20) No indication of small arms aboard, but I’d be very surprised if there weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Yeah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/dbc845/32.png) [@Yeah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeah)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-navy-hospital-ships/525110/16 "2010-01-17T04:14:32Z")
I spent 3 weeks on the COMFORT a few years ago. There were about 5 MAs. I think they carried pistols but I’m not certain. The civilian crew runs the ship. They have their own quarters and mess so I almost never saw them. Most of the ship is the Military Treatment Facility (900+ beds IIRC) commanded by a Navy O-6 and staffed by military, only a few of whome are permanently assigned to the ship.