# US Police shoot dead a scared young New Zealander **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 16, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676 "2022-09-16T14:33:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/41 "2022-09-17T18:56:14Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > CPR reported cannabis (THC) as well. OK. But presumably this is not evidence towards him being the aggressor. Unless you are saying it is. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/42 "2022-09-17T19:01:14Z")
I did not see him being the aggressor. He was seated in his driver’s seat and at times he was holding a knife. I see it as excessive use of deadly force. Does anyone see it differently? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/43 "2022-09-17T19:05:07Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > > [@dolphinboy](#): > > > > Unfortu **strong text** nately, police in the US are given the benefit of the doubt in cases where it’s not clear (at the time) whether they are in danger. It’s a split-second decision, which sometimes leads to an innocent person being unnecessarily shot. > > It’s never clear whether the police are in danger. It’s legalized murder. The police should protect themselves against threats, real or positive. Be ready to shoot, if the guy pulls a gun. But that never happens. Yes, legalized murder. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/44 "2022-09-17T19:20:44Z")
I never said he was. I said being on drugs he **may** have been aggressive. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/45 "2022-09-17T19:25:25Z")
After over an hour of the police talking to Christian Glass, the police actions develop rapidly. 1. 1h8m49s — video clip begins 2. 1h8m52s — passenger window smashed, then officers repeatedly tell Glass to drop the knife 3. 1h9m26s — officer yells out IMPACT IMPACT IMPACT before shooting bean bag 4. 1h9m28s — bean bags fired, 2 rapidly, then 2 more, then 2 more; officers continue to tell Glass to drop the knife 5. 1h9m54s — Glass is tazed twice 6. 1h10m22s — Glass is shot 5x So that’s less than one minute from the first bean bag (of 6) fired at Glass, then tazing, then Glass is shot 5x. All in less than one minute, and all this time Glass is seated in his car and not dropping the knife. Clearly that is excessive use of deadly force. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/YYB2kX5iwwE/maxresdefault.jpg "RAW: Body camera footage shows fatal shooting of man having apparent mental crisis") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYB2kX5iwwE) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/46 "2022-09-17T19:32:34Z")
After the shooting, at 1h10m26s, one officer (presumably the shooting officer) says, He went for you, Williams, right? Sounds like somebody trying to cover their ass. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/47 "2022-09-18T04:01:41Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And, the legal system can be open to convicting police officers who use excessive lethal force, even in the case of an individual who is armed, without any doctrine of “qualified immunity”. > > In the killing of Sammy Yatim in Toronto, who was armed with a knife and threatening passengers on a street car, the officer fired three shots, then made a “split-second decision” (to use the common phrase) to fire six more shots. > > Yatim was already dying from the first three shots and immobile. > > The jury convicted the officer of attempted murder. He was sentenced to six years. > > [Killing of Sammy Yatim - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Sammy_Yatim) Qualified immunity has nothing to do with convicting or charging anyone. It only applies to civil suits. And it’s qualified not absolute because a lawsuit can be brought if constitutional rights are violated. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/48 "2022-09-18T13:06:00Z")
My mistake, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/49 "2022-09-18T13:24:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > …if constitutional rights are violated. Well, _clearly established_ constitutional rights, in light of certain court decisions. And “clearly established” does a lot of work on behalf of the police there. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/50 "2022-09-18T13:51:52Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > …if constitutional rights are violated. > > Well, _clearly established_ constitutional rights, in light of certain court decisions. And “clearly established” does a lot of work on behalf of the police there. It can depending on the situation. But it’s still qualified not absolute and it has no bearing on whether someone is charged criminally. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/51 "2022-09-18T17:55:47Z")
The Glass family have retained a lawyer named Siddhartha​ Rathod​, who appears to have considerable familiarity with civil rights claims. He has said that he expects to file a civil claim soon. > **[Siddhartha H. Rathod - RM Lawyers](https://rmlawyers.com/attorneys/siddhartha-h-rathod/)** > > Siddhartha H. Rathod Phone: 303-578-4400 Fax: 303-578-4401 Email: sr@rmlawyers.com Siddhartha is a partner at Rathod | Mohamedbhai LLC, whose practice areas inc ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/52 "2022-09-18T18:16:00Z")
I’m not a huge defender of the police, tho I do empathize with the challenge of encountering “challenging” people in stressful situations. There was definitely something weird going on w/ the guy in the car, but I can’t imagine the mindset that required the cops to all be brandishing their guns in the first place, or to eventually force the issue. What - were they going sto shoot him to prevent him from stabbing himself with his pocketknife? No idea why so many cops needed to be on the scene, or so close to the car. Once the driver refused to exit, they coulda just left 1-2 cops sitting in their cars, waiting for the social worker and/or tow truck to show up. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/53 "2022-09-18T19:07:45Z")
Yup. Send the likes of me in, or anyone trained in community mental health. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/54 "2022-09-18T19:20:59Z")
Unless the kid was bleeding or seizing or something, just can’t imagine why they couldn’t wait him out. Sitting in his locked car, he wasn’t a danger to the cops or anyone. Not sure why the cops declined his offer to throw his knives out early on. They seemed locked into their demand that he exit the car, and wouldn’t accept anything else. I hope these cops face some serious punishment. OTOH, I cannot imagine the challenges of being a cop in much of today’s America. Unless they pay them a heckuva lot more, they are not likely to attract the best candidates. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/55 "2022-11-29T18:26:11Z")
A grand jury has returned an indictment against two of the cops involved in killing Glass. The grand jury determined that the decision to remove Glass from the car directly led to his death, and there was no probable cause or other reason to remove him from the car. At the time they decided to remove Glass from the car, he was not a danger to anybody, including himself. The cop who shot and killed Glass was indicted on charges of second-degree murder, official misconduct and reckless endangerment. The supervisor/sergeant who made the decision to remove Glass from the car was indicted on charges of criminally negligent homicide and reckless endangerment. > **[Grand jury says Clear Creek officer’s decision to remove Christian Glass from...](https://coloradosun.com/2022/11/28/clear-creek-grand-jury-indictment/)** > > Kyle Gould, Andrew Buen had no probable cause of a crime to remove 22-year-old from vehicle while he was having a mental health episode, indictment says ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/56 "2022-11-29T18:54:54Z")
The charges are absolutely deserved, but I’ll be shocked if any convictions come from it. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/57 "2022-11-29T19:08:10Z")
Yeah, understand your point. Convictions would start sending messages to LEOs that they’re here to serve and protect us, in the true sense of the words serve and protect. LEOs perform great services for us, but some let the power get to their head and they abuse that power and they abuse their use of deadly force. Convictions need to happen here. ETA — … based on what I’ve seen in the available video. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/58 "2022-12-01T04:21:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > “The suspect rearmed himself with a rock and a second knife,” the statement said. “Deputies deployed less-lethal bean bags, and Taser with negative results. The suspect eventually tried to stab an officer and was shot.” Note that according to the police, if you call 911 for roadside assistance, you are automatically a suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/59 "2022-12-01T04:26:02Z")
I watched the entire video. The boy trying to stab the officer — that’s a crock of shit. Utter bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676/60 "2022-12-01T04:29:11Z")
Being bean-bagged and tased would no doubt affect both executive function and muscle control. He was panicking, so they shot him dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-police-shoot-dead-a-scared-young-new-zealander/971676.md?page=4)