# US Presidential Succession exhaustion **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 22, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623 "2004-10-22T17:05:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hadrian0117](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Hadrian0117](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hadrian0117)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/1 "2004-10-22T17:05:04Z")
After the Vice President, the Speaker of the House, and the President _pro tempore_ of the Senate come the cabinet secretaries according to when their Dept was created. That’s **18** people total! Who would become Acting President if some catastrophe takes them all out? I know the House or Senate could elect a new Speaker/President but who would be in charge in the meantime? What if Congress couldn’t get a quroum? ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/2 "2004-10-22T18:14:17Z")
Current law makes no provision, so far as I can determine, past the Cabinet level officers. This makes some sense, as all the positions listed are either voted for by the population, created by Congress, or appointed with the advice and consent of the Senate. IOW, they either represent the people themselves, or they are approved by representatives of the people. You wouldn’t want the Assistant Undersecretary of Agriculture in the succession. The codification is in the United States Code at [3USC19](http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+3USC19): > [@](#): > > (a)(1) If, by reason of death [etc.]…, there is neither a President nor Vice President … then the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall…act as President. > (b) If … there is no Speaker, or the Speaker fails to qualify as Acting President, then the President pro tempore of the Senate shall, …act as President. > (d)(1) If… there is no President pro tempore…, then the officer of the United States who is highest on the following list…shall act as President: Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, Secretary of the Interior, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Labor, Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Secretary of Transportation, Secretary of Energy, Secretary of Education, Secretary of Veterans Affairs. Two notes: 1. The list in (d)(1) has been slightly modified. The Sec of DHS was, I believe, added to the succession. The last full publication of the USC, from which the above was taken, was in 2000, and I don’t feel like looking for the supplements. 2. I have edited the text to eliminate some long sections I don’t think are important here. You can read the full text yourself by clicking the link. As to your last question, what would happen if everyong listed all bought it at one time, we’d be in uncharted territory, and no-one knows. Lastly, welcome to the Boards, here’s hoping you stick around. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/3 "2004-10-22T18:30:55Z")
If I recall correctly, at one point succession law (it’s been changed a number of times over the years) included members of Congress according to seniority. I don’t know if it was Senate first then House, House first then Senate, or just the most senior member still standing. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/4 "2004-10-22T18:35:07Z")
U.S. House of Representatives, [Rule I: The Speaker](http://www.house.gov/rules/RI.htm): > [@](#): > > (3) (a) In the case of a vacancy in the office of Speaker, the next Member on the list described in subdivision (b) shall act as Speaker pro tempore until the election of Speaker or a Speaker pro tempore. Pending such election the Member acting as Speaker pro tempore may exercise such authorities of the Office of Speaker as may be necessary and appropriate to that end. > > (b) As soon as practicable after his election and whenever he deems appropriate thereafter, the Speaker shall deliver to the Clerk a list of Members in the order in which each shall act as Speaker pro tempore under subdivision (a). > > © For purposes of subdivision (a), a vacancy in the office of Speaker may exist by reason of the physical inability of the Speaker to discharge the duties of the office. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/5 "2004-10-22T18:46:03Z")
> [@Hadrian0117](#): > > Who would become Acting President if some catastrophe takes them all out? I know the House or Senate could elect a new Speaker/President but who would be in charge in the meantime? Not very many people know this, but that would be me. Keep it under your hat. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/6 "2004-10-22T18:54:22Z")
Hmm. I’d have bet the farm that the Cheif Justice of the SCOTUS was on the list but I’d have been mistaken. Can an individual in the line of succession decline to take the Oath or are they automatically President (if those before him/her are unable) and then would have to officially resign? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/7 "2004-10-22T18:55:25Z")
This brings up a very interesting question. Assume the President, Vice President, Speaker of the House, and President pro tempore of the Senate are all killed in a tragic mah jongg accident (it was terrible–tiles flying everywhere). By 3USC19(d)(1), the Secretary of State becomes acting President. Later that afternoon, the House meets and selects a new Speaker. Does that new Speaker invoke 3USC19(a)(1) and take over as President, or is it too late? Is the Secretary of State already locked in? ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/8 "2004-10-22T19:01:55Z")
Shortly after the 911 attacks, there were a few news accounts of some quasi-government committee setup to study what to do in case a terrorist attack would wipe out Congress. There were some ideas but AFAIK, none were actually introduced as a bill. A change woulld possibly require a constitutional amendment. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/9 "2004-10-22T19:02:08Z")
To the OP, my guess is that if all 18 of these people suddenly died, the military would end up declaring martial law. And would hopefully relinquish control when a new Speaker of the House could be decided on. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/10 "2004-10-22T19:07:31Z")
> [@aahala](#): > > Shortly after the 911 attacks, there were a few news accounts of some quasi-government committee setup to study what to do in case a terrorist attack would wipe out Congress. There were some ideas but AFAIK, none were actually introduced as a bill. A change woulld possibly require a constitutional amendment. The President doesn’t need Congress. Wipe out Congress, and whoever is President just keeps running the country under existing law. States could appoint new Senators. The lack of a House of Representatives for a while would be an issue, though. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/11 "2004-10-22T19:09:31Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Can an individual in the line of succession decline to take the Oath or are they automatically President (if those before him/her are unable) and then would have to officially resign? A person in the line of succession would automatically become president, provided that he or she was qualified to be president (native born, at least 35 years old, etc.). However, the Constitution requires the new president to take the oath of office before he can execute the office, i.e., do anything worth mentioning. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/12 "2004-10-22T19:11:51Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > A person in the line of succession would automatically become president, provided that he or she was qualified to be president (native born, at least 35 years old, etc.). However, the Constitution requires the new president to take the oath of office before he can execute the office, i.e., do anything worth mentioning. WHERE in the Constitution does it say the Speaker of the House can’t become president by succession if they are under 35 years old? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/13 "2004-10-22T19:15:33Z")
Article II, Section 1. > [@](#): > > No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; **neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years** , and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/14 "2004-10-22T19:17:26Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > if all 18 of these people suddenly died, the military would end up declaring martial law Not saying it wouldn’t happen but is this legal? How would we ease back to a civilian governement? ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/15 "2004-10-22T19:18:54Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > WHERE in the Constitution does it say the Speaker of the House can’t become president by succession if they are under 35 years old? That would be Article. II. Section. 1. Clause 5, “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.” It doesn’t say anything about exceptions being made for how the person got to be President (i.e., either by election or succession). ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/16 "2004-10-22T19:20:33Z")
Fooey, beat by three minutes! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/17 "2004-10-22T19:56:52Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Not saying it wouldn’t happen but is this legal? How would we ease back to a civilian governement? It wouldn’t be legal, but in the case of a catastrophe that wiped out everyone in the succession it would be the most likely option. The military could cede power to a civilian government once it had been re-established. ---
**Author:** ![Hadrian0117](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Hadrian0117](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hadrian0117)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/18 "2004-10-22T19:57:24Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > The President doesn’t need Congress. Wipe out Congress, and whoever is President just keeps running the country under existing law. States could appoint new Senators. The lack of a House of Representatives for a while would be an issue, though. Actually the although the House member can only be replaced through a special election, apparntly they changed their defination of a quorom after 9/11. Vacant seats don’t count so I guess even if 434 members died the survivor would be a quorom and have all the powers of the House? But Congress wouldn’t be able to convene for a few as long as a few days in a major attack so who’d be giving orders till then? Who’d get the nuclear football? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/19 "2004-10-22T19:57:59Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Not very many people know this, but that would be me. Keep it under your hat. General Haig!? I was **wondering** where you’d disappeared to! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623/20 "2004-10-22T20:06:59Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > General Haig!? I was **wondering** where you’d disappeared to! 😉 No, no, no, that would be **Last Year’s Model**! 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidential-succession-exhaustion/270623.md?page=2)