# US Presidents and Military Service **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143 "2010-04-23T20:06:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/1 "2010-04-23T20:06:38Z")
Which US Presidents have _not_ served in the military? For the purposes of this question, “served in the military” means they were in one of the armed services or in a state militia. This includes those who served when the US was not at war, and those who had Stateside jobs or otherwise never saw combat. Based on my extensive research (okay, so I looked at Wikipedia), I think the list is: [ul][li]John Adams[_]Thomas Jefferson[_]James Madison[_]John Quincy Adams[_]James Polk[_]Andrew Johnson[_]Grover Cleveland[_]William Howard Taft[_]Woodrow Wilson[_]Warren Harding[_]Calvin Coolidge[_]Herbert Hoover[_]Bill ClintonBarack Obama[/ul]Am I missing anyone, or is anyone on that list who should not be?[/li] (This question came up because of an argument with an acquaintance that you really don’t want to know about…) ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/2 "2010-04-23T20:15:34Z")
Nixon was military? He may have been, I don’t know, but I thought otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/3 "2010-04-23T20:18:26Z")
> [@campp](#): > > Nixon was military? He may have been, I don’t know, but I thought otherwise. Richard M. Nixon served in the Navy 1942-1946, reaching the rank of Lieutenant Commander. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/4 "2010-04-23T20:23:14Z")
According to the [wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johnson), about Andrew Johnson, > [@](#): > > Lincoln appointed Johnson military governor of occupied Tennessee in March 1862 with the rank of brigadier general. I think that counts as military service. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/5 "2010-04-23T20:26:02Z")
I don’t think FDR ever served in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/6 "2010-04-23T20:31:17Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I don’t think FDR ever served in the military. FDR was Assistant Secretary for the Navy 1913-1920. However, I think that’s a civilian appointment. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/7 "2010-04-23T20:51:16Z")
Polk was a Colonel in the Tennessee militia. Assistant Secretary of the Navy is a civilian appointment. If we’re counting civilian appointments, Taft was Secretary of War. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/8 "2010-04-23T20:52:09Z")
Thomas Jefferson had a rather illustrious military career: > [@Official Website of the National Guard](#): > > In 1770, at the age of 27, the Governor of Virginia appointed Thomas Jefferson as the county lieutenant, with the rank of colonel, of the Albemarle County Militia. Colonel Jefferson was responsible for all militia affairs in the county including insuring that the Albermarle County Regiment of Militia drilled on a regular basis, that the regimental and company muster rolls were kept up, and that militia fines were collected by the sheriff. Jefferson also presided over courts-martial and councils of war. With the start of the Revolutionary War, Colonel Jefferson’s military duties increased. He reported directly to the governor in preparing the county militia for mobilization. Jefferson was also responsible for providing militia soldiers as replacements for the Virginia regiments of the Continental Army. He found the time to represent Virginia at the Continental Congress which adopted the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1776, written almost entirely by Jefferson. Elected governor in 1779, Jefferson resigned his militia commission. As commander-in-chief of the Virginia militia, he mobilized the militia to reinforce the Continental Army in the Southern campaign which ended in victory at Yorktown on October 19, 1781. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/9 "2010-04-23T22:25:28Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > According to the [wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johnson), about Andrew Johnson, > > > [@](#): > > > > Lincoln appointed Johnson military governor of occupied Tennessee in March 1862 with the rank of brigadier general. > > I think that counts as military service. Only barely, but as a commission from the President it makes the cut. That BTW is one thing that tends to confuse this, into the 19th Century it was not unusual to have commissions, even to field rank, issued as a straight political/patronage appointment, specially in the militia (this lives on symbolically in honorary titles such as Kentucky Colonel). OTOH, one also has to consider that _every_ able-bodied free male was theoretically part of the militia, however half-baked the outfit. OTOH cabinet secretary IS a civilian position, neither Taft nor FDR ever wore the uniform AFAIK. So as of this post, we have to add FDR and strike Jefferson, Polk and A. Johnson from the list: [ul] [li]John Adams [/li][li]James Madison [/li][li]John Quincy Adams [/li][li]Grover Cleveland [/li][li]William Howard Taft [/li][li]Woodrow Wilson [/li][li]Warren Harding [/li][li]Calvin Coolidge [/li][li]Herbert Hoover [/li][li]Franklin D. Roosevelt[/li][li]Bill Clinton [/li][li]Barack Obama[/li][/ul] If you observe the list you get a big 3-decade+ bump of nonmilitary presidents from Taft to FDR – the start of this coincides with the running out of the large pool of men who served in the Civil War (Rough Rider Teddy Roosevelt being a media-darling outlier), and a historic trend (that would extend well into modern times) where peacetime service was seen by the public as unglamorous and not a good resumé building block . Then after FDR you get WW1 vet Truman, and then from Ike to Bush41 you get 4 decades with the again huge pool of WW2-era talent (Carter was at Annapolis, Reagan making Army training films, everybody else save for Ike were naval officers), before once again tapering off and having mostly people w/o prior service among the likely candidates in every cycle. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/10 "2010-04-23T22:37:00Z")
Lyndon B. Johnson was in the reserve. I don’t think he was ever active duty. He did have assignments. > [@](#): > > After America entered the war in December 1941, Johnson, still in Congress, became a commissioned officer in the Naval Reserve, then asked Undersecretary of the Navy James Forrestal for a combat assignment.[13] Instead he was sent to inspect the shipyard facilities in Texas and on the West Coast. In the spring of 1942, President Roosevelt needed his own reports on what conditions were like in the Southwest Pacific. Roosevelt felt information that flowed up the military chain of command needed to be supplemented by a highly trusted political aide. From a suggestion by Forrestal, President Roosevelt assigned Johnson to a three-man survey team of the Southwest Pacific. > **[Lyndon B. Johnson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson)** > > Lyndon Baines Johnson (/ˈlɪndən ˈbeɪnz/; August 27, 1908 – January 22, 1973), also known as LBJ, was the 36th president of the United States, serving from 1963 to 1969. He became president after the assassination of John F. Kennedy, under whom he had served as the 37th vice president from 1961 to 1963. A Southern Democrat, Johnson previously represented Texas in Congress for over 23 years, first as a U.S. representative from 1937 to 1949, and then as a U.S. senator from 1949 to 1961. > Born i... ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/11 "2010-04-24T16:10:14Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Thomas Jefferson had a rather illustrious military career: Umm, if you look at the Yorktown campaign, Jefferson doesn’t look very illustrious, what with the delays in calling out the militia, the fleeing, the giving up on being governor. Then you have his crazy gunboat ideas when president… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/12 "2010-04-24T17:07:14Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Richard M. Nixon served in the Navy 1942-1946, reaching the rank of Lieutenant Commander. Nixon worked in logistics for the South Pacific Combat Air Transport Command. Although as a Quaker he was eligible for an exemption from service (and he never entered into a front line combat role), he served notably in this capacity before resigning his commission to run for Congress as a California representative. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/13 "2010-04-24T17:23:32Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Only barely, but as a commission from the President it makes the cut. That BTW is one thing that tends to confuse this, into the 19th Century it was not unusual to have commissions, even to field rank, issued as a straight political/patronage appointment, specially in the militia (this lives on symbolically in honorary titles such as Kentucky Colonel). OTOH, one also has to consider that _every_ able-bodied free male was theoretically part of the militia, however half-baked the outfit. > > OTOH cabinet secretary IS a civilian position, neither Taft nor FDR ever wore the uniform AFAIK. So as of this post, we have to add FDR and strike Jefferson, Polk and A. Johnson from the list: > > [ul] > [li]John Adams [/li][li]James Madison [/li][li]John Quincy Adams [/li][li]Grover Cleveland [/li][li]William Howard Taft [/li][li]Woodrow Wilson [/li][li]Warren Harding [/li][li]Calvin Coolidge [/li][li]Herbert Hoover [/li][li]Franklin D. Roosevelt[/li][li]Bill Clinton [/li][li]Barack Obama[/li][/ul] > If you observe the list you get a big 3-decade+ bump of nonmilitary presidents from Taft to FDR – the start of this coincides with the running out of the large pool of men who served in the Civil War (Rough Rider Teddy Roosevelt being a media-darling outlier), and a historic trend (that would extend well into modern times) where peacetime service was seen by the public as unglamorous and not a good resumé building block . Then after FDR you get WW1 vet Truman, and then from Ike to Bush41 you get 4 decades with the again huge pool of WW2-era talent (Carter was at Annapolis, Reagan making Army training films, everybody else save for Ike were naval officers), before once again tapering off and having mostly people w/o prior service among the likely candidates in every cycle. Grover Cleveland notably stands out as an outlier in the large pool of veterans following the Civil War. In an era where much political hay could be made of a candidate’s Civil War record, and “waving the bloody shirt” was a common tactic, Cleveland managed to get elected in spite of having paid a substitute to avoid being drafted for service in the Civil War. That was something that was perfectly legal at the time, and was done by many sons of well-to-do families. It didn’t look good when one was running for public office in later years, though. Cleveland made up for it by being perceived as remarkably honest, and running against Blaine, who was largely believed to be as crooked as a dog’s hind leg. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2010, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/14 "2010-04-25T11:26:17Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > FDR was Assistant Secretary for the Navy 1913-1920. However, I think that’s a civilian appointment. I’d say the same. I saw a reference to his wife’s reaction “when he came back from World War I”, and didn’t know if that referred to some sort of military assignment or to a civilian assignment connected to the war. Sounds like it was the latter. Thanks so much for the help! I should maybe should explain that this involves someone who asserted that most US presidents had military experience, but the “very greatest” were those who did not. I brought up George Washington (because, let’s face it, arguing that Washington wasn’t a great president is fightin’ words to most Americans) and got the “exception that proves the rule” bit in reply. I think, if we look at **JRDelirious** ’s updated list, we find some highly respected presidents and some wrong numbers. A number of highly respected presidents are also clearly _absent_ from the list, not just Washington. So I think it proves my point, she says smugly, that there’s no obvious connection either way between military service and presidential greatness. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/15 "2010-04-25T13:03:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Lyndon B. Johnson was in the reserve. I don’t think he was ever active duty. He did have assignments. He flew as an observer on several bombing missions, receiving the Army Silver Star Medal [for “gallantry in action”](http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/Johnson/archives.hom/FAQs/military/military.asp). Critics have however suggested that the dangers he was exposed to were exaggerated and the medal was just a gesture to someone with political clout. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/16 "2010-04-25T17:23:37Z")
There seems to be a pretty broad historical consensus that LBJ didn’t really deserve his Silver Star. You’ll notice him wearing the lapel pin in many photos during his years in politics, however. A discussion of the controversy, [http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?160677-Lyndon-B-Johnson-s-Silver-Star](http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?160677-Lyndon-B-Johnson-s-Silver-Star), and a famous photo showing it: [http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/swoose\_lbj\_stolen\_silver\_star.jpg](http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/swoose_lbj_stolen_silver_star.jpg) > [@Ispolkom](#): > > …Then you have his crazy gunboat ideas when president… Tell me about it. Theodore Roosevelt in his still-widely-read _The Naval War of 1812_ is absolutely scathing about Jefferson and his handling of naval affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-presidents-and-military-service/537143/17 "2010-05-08T09:55:50Z")
Of course, nothing Jefferson (or any President) did _as_ President is germane to this list. As for the Yorktown campaign, I’d be interested in reading more about that. Can someone recommend a good study?