# US requirements for Catholics fasting in Lent **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 10, 2005, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351 "2005-02-10T04:40:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351/21 "2005-02-10T22:16:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As **BobT** points out, the Feast of St. Joseph is a Holy Day of Obligation, although in the US, we slide it to the nearest Sunday. But there are technically ten, not six, Holy Days. I think it’s more precise to say that in the U.S., the feast of St. Joseph is a holy day, but the obligation to attend Mass does not apply. I’ve never seen it NOT celebrated on March 19. Since it is a big holiday among Italians, who usually make a sizeable portion of any Catholic parish (your ethnicities may vary, for comparison purposes only), there would be some unhappy people if they had to celebrate St. Joseph’s Day on March 20 or 21. I doubt the Irish would like St. Patrick’s Day being moved around either. However, I believe the celebration of the Feast of St. Patrick is optional for churches. Very few don’t do it because of the predominance of the Irish in most parishes. But all churches celebrate St. Joseph’s Day. I believe that is worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351/22 "2005-02-10T23:35:06Z")
Regarding fish, crustaceans, turtles, muskrats(?), etc.: The practice of the Western Church has generally declared abstinence for “flesh meat,” and when the lists of critters were drawn up (several hundreds of years ago), the lists looked amazing like a grouping by “warm blooded” and “cold blooded” categories. Shrimp and turtles are cold blooded and have generally been considered outside the “meat” proscription for Friday abstinence. As noted, however, the bishops and the national churches have always had a certain amount of latitude in defining “meat” for the cultures in which they operate. I have heard the muskrat story off and on for years without ever bothering to see if there was any truth to it. On the other hand, in some places turtles have made it onto the proscribed list because their meat is more clearly associated withthe “muscle” meat we find in cattle or poultry. In contrast, the Eastern Churches have tended to have a different list that proscribes even fish, eggs, and olive oil. (The point in both cases, as **Bricker** noted, is that the church is looking to identify an action that will call attention to sacrifice without necessarily looking to get involved in a taxonomic description of “what you cannot eat.” ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351/23 "2005-02-11T00:02:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But there are technically ten, not six, Holy Days. IIRC (and I don’t bet on that) . . . aren’t there . . . 58, on the basis that each Sunday is technically a Holy Day of Obligation? Re: Muskrat: > **[Poletown East, Detroit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poletown)** > > Poletown East is a neighborhood area of Detroit, Michigan, bordering the enclave city of Hamtramck. The area was named after the Polish immigrants who originally lived in the area. A portion of residential area known as Poletown became the General Motors Detroit/Hamtramck Assembly plant in 1981 with those residents relocated by General Motors and the cities of Detroit and Hamtramck which claimed eminent domain in order to make way for a new automobile plant. > Poletown was settled in the 1870s whe... [http://www.freep.com/news/cfp/3/vrat11v\_20041111.htm](http://www.freep.com/news/cfp/3/vrat11v_20041111.htm) ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351/24 "2005-02-11T01:16:17Z")
Sunday is a holy day, but not a Holy Day ™. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351/25 "2005-02-11T01:21:59Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > Sunday is a holy day, but not a Holy Day ™. > [@](#): > > ß1: Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as _the foremost holy day of obligation_ [ed.] in the universal Church. Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension and the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Mary Mother of God and her Immaculate Conception and Assumption, Saint Joseph, the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and finally, All Saints. That’s where I was getting it – [http://www.wf-f.org/CanonSundayHolyDay.html](http://www.wf-f.org/CanonSundayHolyDay.html) . ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351/26 "2005-02-11T01:36:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, except that “anything goes” is a bit vague. Catholics still are called upon to not eat meat on Fridays throughout the year, but may substitute another penitential behavior during Fridays outside of Lent. During Lent, abstaining from meat is mandatory. > > - Rick Citation please? While now I don’t believe in god, I was raised in a Roman Catholic household in the US (I was born in 1961). I never heard _anything_ about abstaining from eating meat (outside of fish) on Fridays outside of Lent. (And of course also Ash Wednesday.) I just never heard anything as a kid that eating a cheeseburger in July could be inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351/27 "2005-02-11T01:41:43Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > IIRC (and I don’t bet on that) . . . aren’t there . . . 58, on the basis that each Sunday is technically a Holy Day of Obligation? > > Re: Muskrat: > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poletown](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poletown) > [http://www.freep.com/news/cfp/3/vrat11v\_20041111.htm](http://www.freep.com/news/cfp/3/vrat11v_20041111.htm) ] Both my parents were raised in “Poletown” (Hamtramck, MI). I enjoyed eating paczki on Tuesday this week. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351/28 "2005-02-11T01:56:00Z")
**rfgdxm** , yep, that is the rule, but you’re certainly not alone in not knowing about it. From the [EWTN](http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/fast_and_abstinence.htm) site: > [@](#): > > On the Fridays outside of Lent the U.S. bishops conference obtained the permission of the Holy See for Catholics in the US to substitute a penitential, or even a charitable, practice of their own choosing. They must do some penitential/charitable practice on these Fridays. For most people the easiest practice to consistently fulfill will be the traditional one, to abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year. During Lent abstinence from meat on Fridays is obligatory in the United States as elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351/29 "2005-02-11T01:58:46Z")
I stand corrected. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-requirements-for-catholics-fasting-in-lent/289351.md?page=1)