# US response to diplomat's killing in Libya **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2012, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602 "2012-09-13T09:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/21 "2012-09-13T17:34:07Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > I"m not certain what the response should be, but part of me really thinks that we ought to simply start putting the screws to the new governments over this type of stuff. Considering that attacks are ongoing (in Yemen, for example) I think we do need to make a strong response. I know you were exercising your right to free hyperbole, but pulling aid hurts the wrong groups. IMO. Extradition would send the right message, but I tend to think a missile crater or a bloody smudge on a bedroom wall is the more likely outcome. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/22 "2012-09-13T17:34:51Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > I"m not certain what the response should be, but part of me really thinks that we ought to simply start putting the screws to the new governments over this type of stuff. Pull out all aid programs and funds immediately. Freeze all American donated assets, etc. Make it clear that this type of bullshit isn’t going to fly, and until they get their populations under control they aren’t getting any help money or trade from us. Make it additionally clear, that any further attacks on us from their countries will be met with swift and disproportionate response. > > I know that isn’t really the logical way to handle this, but crap like these incidents really riles me up. But that is better than bombing it back into the stone age. Imagine if we had Bush in the white house. Economic sanctions would be worlds better than boots on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/23 "2012-09-13T17:42:13Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > But that is better than bombing it back into the stone age. Imagine if we had Bush in the white house. Economic sanctions would be worlds better than boots on the ground. It’d be totally misguided, though, if it’s just for something like ‘not getting your people under control’ rather than actual state support for terrorism. In some of these countries terrorists are able to conduct their business because the government isn’t strong enough to stop them - and on the other end of the scale, repressive strongmen are often targets for terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/24 "2012-09-13T17:43:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They don’t follow the same chain-of-custody procedures US law enforcement personnel do, which makes any evidence they gather likely to be inadmissible in a US court. Interesting. Do we think there’s really any chance any of this winds up in a U.S. court? I see AG Holder just said his office is starting a criminal investigation into the deaths of Stevens and Smith and the others. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/25 "2012-09-13T17:47:39Z")
> [@SiXSwordS](#): > > Extradition would send the right message, but I tend to think a missile crater or a bloody smudge on a bedroom wall is the more likely outcome. Yeah, color me surprised if this ends in anything other than the FBI holding up a baggie containing half a jawbone, saying “This was the guy.” And it may be the actual guy, it may have been someone standing next to the actual guy, or it may be Jimmy Hoffa. We’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/26 "2012-09-13T17:48:21Z")
> [@SiXSwordS](#): > > Considering that attacks are ongoing (in Yemen, for example) I think we do need to make a strong response. I know you were exercising your right to free hyperbole, but pulling aid hurts the wrong groups. IMO. > > Extradition would send the right message, but I tend to think a missile crater or a bloody smudge on a bedroom wall is the more likely outcome. Meh, I’m not feeling that big or generous today is all. It frustrates me to no end that religion continues to poison every aspect of this process. We supported the elections, we supported the protestors, we donated loads of money and relief, but the moment some wingnut makes a retarded movie about their holy man the crowd goes and starts trashing and burning our embassies? I don’t get it. I’m aware that embargoes usually worsen the situation for the average person on the street, but that small, mean part of me is grumbling today as I watch events unfold. “pack it all up and let them pound sand for a while and see how they like it” he says. It doesn’t _feel_ right to just accept apologies and keep on with things, but neither do I blame the young government or the public as a whole for the actions of a easily inflamed minority. I’m hardly a jingoistic type, but I can’t help wondering if it’s all just a waste of resources. Maybe it would be easier, but horribly unethical to let it all melt down and pick up the pieces later. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/27 "2012-09-13T17:50:07Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > the crowd goes and starts trashing and burning our embassies? I don’t get it. It’s not “the crowd.” It’s terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/28 "2012-09-13T18:00:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s not “the crowd.” It’s terrorists. In Libya, yes. In Cairo and Yemen, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/29 "2012-09-13T18:07:45Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > In Libya, yes. In Cairo and Yemen, not so much. The embassies in Egypt and Yemen weren’t trashed and burned. There have been protests in a bunch of cities and some crazy behavior including clashes with local police, but no destroyed embassies. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/30 "2012-09-13T18:09:11Z")
The response will be the same as to other terrorist incidents. It is an ongoing war against the terrorists. Some perpetrators will be killed, some will continue operating. You won’t know whether they have been found and eliminated, no matter what our government says about it. The significance of it being the ambassador that was killed and not someone other American may be important in some diplomatic circles, but not in war-with-terrorists terms. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/31 "2012-09-13T18:16:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Interesting. Do we think there’s really any chance any of this winds up in a U.S. court? I see AG Holder just said his office is starting a criminal investigation into the deaths of Stevens and Smith and the others. No, but if any of these people are tried in Libya they are unlikely to accept the CIA’s findings as evidence for the same reason. Obviously it won’t matter if they’re tried by missile. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/32 "2012-09-13T20:36:12Z")
I am not so sure as to how the US should handle this matter. Point being whatever goodwill there is for America in Libya presently – and any number of reports I’ve seen and read from journos on the ground, suggest that it is fairly high – could just as easily evaporate with retaliatory strikes. Remember, we’re talking about a fractured country with a heavily armed civilian population. Eastern Libya/the Benghazi area in particular is home to some of the most radical tribes in the country. So much so that I believe the only remaining Western consulate in the city was precisely the Americans. I remember reading that the UK shut theirs down a few months ago due to exactly what happened on Monday: an assassination attempt on their diplomats. Add that to the fact that the Central Gov, such as it is, has made it clear for some time it doesn’t have power to control the area – again, we saw that in the attack on Monday, where their forces suffered heavy casualties while trying to resist the jihadist onslaught; they couldn’t – and you have a rather volatile situation. Point being, I have no idea how Libyans will react. Or more accurately put, as again, there are quite a few rebel tribes and infiltrated AQ cells, what **they’ll do** should the US strike. Sadly, I see a mini-Iraq brewing. Hope I am wrong of course, but I do think this was easily predictable. This article gives a more in-depth analysis of said foresight: [**Libyan attack: it should have been clear deposing Gaddafi was the easy bit**](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/12/libyan-attack-fire-cannot-extinguish) And if that isn’t bad enough, I am of the opinion that the real elephant in the room at this time is none other than Egypt. Relations between the two countries appear to be deteriorating quickly and that is certainly an ominous sign. Once more I can only hope to be totally wrong in the way I am reading the situation. Unfortunately, I’ve been right more than once before. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/33 "2012-09-13T20:52:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The embassies in Egypt and Yemen weren’t trashed and burned. As far as [Yemen](http://news.yahoo.com/yemeni-protesters-storm-u-embassy-sanaa-witnesses-085414831.html) goes, the only reason the embassy was spared was because of security forces firing into the air and breaking out the tear gas. I have read of some indications that the Libyan embassy attack was planned, but that is breaking news and I haven’t had much chance to digest. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/34 "2012-09-13T20:59:54Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Meh, I’m not feeling that big or generous today is all. Our foreign policy exists to serve the greater interests of the United States, not to make you feel good inside. It is in our long term interests to support Libya’s new government and lashing out blindly at them because we’re pissed off would be foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/35 "2012-09-13T21:03:23Z")
> [@SiXSwordS](#): > > I have read of some indications that the Libyan embassy attack was planned, but that is breaking news and I haven’t had much chance to digest. It’s looking fairly strong at this point. And supposedly arrests are already being made. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/36 "2012-09-13T22:14:35Z")
[Four so far, according to official sources.](http://news.yahoo.com/libya-makes-arrests-over-deadly-benghazi-attack-official-175308342.html) ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/37 "2012-09-14T12:34:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > …arrests are already being made. While arrests are apparently being made, the official word at this point is that the attack wasn’t planned, or at least there is (was) no evidence to indicate that it was planned: > [@](#): > > ["…there is no intelligence indicating that the attack in Benghazi was premeditated”. > > “This is absolutely wrong,” [said] Shawn Turner, spokesman for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. > > “We are not aware of any actionable intelligence indicating that an attack on the US Mission in Benghazi was planned or imminent,”]([No actionable intelligence prior to Benghazi attack: US | World News | Zee News](http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/us-denies-libya-embassy-attack-was-premeditated_799599.html)) ---
**Author:** ![AdanTheSomali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ba0ec/32.png) [@AdanTheSomali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdanTheSomali)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/38 "2012-09-14T12:55:29Z")
It’s probably going to be manifestly difficult to pinpoint the particular individual’s responsible for this atrocity, so the reprisals will have to be against entire Islamist groups and their leadership. The Arabs understand a blood feud in their culture and probably won’t be too upset if Americans start killing random people LOL ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/39 "2012-09-14T14:34:01Z")
CNN [quotes] ([http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/14/world/africa/libya-us-ambassador-killed/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/14/world/africa/libya-us-ambassador-killed/index.html)) an aide to the Libyan prime minister as saying that hte four people arrested were not directly tied to the attack, and he would not detail the allegations against them. My assumption is that the government is just taking the opportunity to round up some political enemies. This [article](http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/0914/Libya-s-rogue-militias-complicate-manhunt-for-those-behind-consulate-attack) details some of the difficulty in trying to establish responsibility for the attacks, let alone arrest anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602/40 "2012-09-14T17:54:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > My understanding is that the idea of consulates and embassies as U.S. soil is pretty much fiction. Americans were killed, but the crime happened in Libya. I thought the reason Julian Assange was able to remain in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London was because it is Ecuadorian territory. Going by your theory, the British could just kick the door in and arrest him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-response-to-diplomats-killing-in-libya/634602.md?page=3)