# US school cancels prom to avoid lesbian student bringing a date **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 11, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108 "2010-03-11T15:28:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/541 "2010-04-21T07:01:22Z")
> [@DCTrekkie](#): > > Martini Enfield, you seem to be of the opinion that people should fight discrimination, but not in any way that annoys or inconveniences the people doing the discriminating. > [@Yookeroo](#): > > Isn’t this the **Starving Artist** position? \*\*Starving Artist \*\*believes that education is the key to positive change with regard to discrimination, and that anger and name-calling only make bigots dig in their heels and become even more intransigent than they were before. It can also alienate fence-sitters, who, being turned off by the rhetoric of hate in the name of tolerance, decide that lefties are no better than the ones they’re criticizing and therefore choose not to join their ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/542 "2010-04-21T10:51:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Starving Artist believes that education is the key to positive change with regard to discrimination, and that anger and name-calling only make bigots dig in their heels and become even more intransigent than they were before. It can also alienate fence-sitters, who, being turned off by the rhetoric of hate in the name of tolerance, decide that lefties are no better than the ones they’re criticizing and therefore choose not to join their ranks. So… bigots are put off by the rhetoric of hate in the name of tolerance and so instead cling to the rhetoric of tolerance in the name of hate? Actually, re-reading that, it’s true. Not sensible, not logical, but true. And sad. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/543 "2010-04-21T11:29:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > \*\*Starving Artist \*\*believes that education is the key to positive change with regard to discrimination, and that anger and name-calling only make bigots dig in their heels and become even more intransigent than they were before. It can also alienate fence-sitters, who, being turned off by the rhetoric of hate in the name of tolerance, decide that lefties are no better than the ones they’re criticizing and therefore choose not to join their ranks. **Martini Enfield** agrees with this. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/544 "2010-04-21T14:13:51Z")
I don’t think anyone here has been hateful. I think a lot of conservatives read people disagreeing with them as people marginalizing them. And I do think it’s odd that you want people to extend to you basic rights and courtesies (which they have been doing) and yet you don’t really see why Constance and others want those same basic things. Imagine how you’d feel if people weren’t politely disagreeing with you but were telling you to “Quit yer bitchin’” and going out of their way to exclude you from parties and wishing you’d just shut up. I think you’d feel a lot worse than you’re feeling right now, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/545 "2010-04-21T15:13:22Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t think anyone here has been hateful. I think a lot of conservatives read people disagreeing with them as people marginalizing them. And I do think it’s odd that you want people to extend to you basic rights and courtesies (which they have been doing) and yet you don’t really see why Constance and others want those same basic things. Imagine how you’d feel if people weren’t politely disagreeing with you but were telling you to “Quit yer bitchin’” and going out of their way to exclude you from parties and wishing you’d just shut up. I think you’d feel a lot worse than you’re feeling right now, to be honest. **Descamisado** agrees with this. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/546 "2010-04-21T15:58:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > \*\*Starving Artist \*\*believes that education is the key to positive change with regard to discrimination, and that anger and name-calling only make bigots dig in their heels and become even more intransigent than they were before. It can also alienate fence-sitters, who, being turned off by the rhetoric of hate in the name of tolerance, decide that lefties are no better than the ones they’re criticizing and therefore choose not to join their ranks. Well stated! ---
**Author:** ![DCTrekkie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dctrekkie/32/18862_2.png) [@DCTrekkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCTrekkie)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/547 "2010-04-21T22:07:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Because that’s one of the more damning parts of this. Combine that with her saying she would have accepted a written note that would give her permission, and you get a very big idea that **she was doing it all for herself**. > > And when you do something that hurts someone else for your own benefit when there are other options, that makes you a \*\*selfish \*\*jerk. I’m willing to grant that her jerkiness was due to her youth. But to actually be proud of her is too much. > > I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. We just had a pit thread with Chimera, where I actually argued the opposite, that someone being jerkish to you shouldn’t matter, if you’re the one who is wrong. The majority of the people there seemed to disagree with this. They claimed that the way to be helped is to be polite, and that, if you aren’t polite, you get what you deserved. > > I don’t see why you can’t understand that same thought pattern here. The way the process was handled was not that best. And some people are going to be resentful of it. Like I said, the only reason I’m not is her relative youth. And my naive optimism that people are ultimately trying to be good. > > And, unfortunately I have to say this on this board: I don’t begrudge her for doing what she did. But I acknowledge that it was for \*\*selfish \*\*reasons, and I understand some people who would be offended by this. > > It does bother me a bit that she is getting so much praise, adoration, and even perks from it, as I think more peaceful, less rushed, less hurtful selfless protests should be rewarded far more than \*\*selfish \*\*ones. > > Finally, I have to comment on Freudian’s last comment: Shut up with the strawmen that indirectly calling people who value politeness as homophobic jerks. You may not choose to be gay, but you do choose how you fight for gay rights. If you choose wrongly, people are going to blast you for it. What exactly is “selfish” about a girl wanting to wear a tux to her prom? And so what if her first move was to just ask for permission for herself. Surely, if anything, that just shows how the school has forced her into making this an issue. If they’d just quietly let her in probably no one would have heard about it. Does she have to become a full time campaigner for gay rights before she can voice an opinion on something like this? > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > That’s not really the same thing, as it depends on the nature of the discrimination being protested against, and personally I feel that protesting you, as a woman, can’t wear a tux to your school formal isn’t important enough to cause those sorts of problems. Being told “You can’t go at all because you’ve got Teh Gay” would warrant that sort of protest. Being told “You’re welcome to come, but we expect you to abide by local community standards which involve appropriate dress” is a totally different kettle of fish to Segregation. > > But since you don’t care what I think, and there’s no debate in this thread, we might as well see if a Mod will close it… Why are “local community standards” more important than letting her wear a tux? The only possible reason to stop it is because they disapprove (or worse) of gay people. They’re more or less telling her to hide the fact that she’s gay, just so that they don’t feel uncomfortable, or not come at all. Should she have to hide her sexuality, fell ashamed of it, just to be allowed to a school dance? Remind me again why the community’s feelings are more important? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > \*\*Starving Artist \*\*believes that education is the key to positive change with regard to discrimination, and that anger and name-calling only make bigots dig in their heels and become even more intransigent than they were before. It can also alienate fence-sitters, who, being turned off by the rhetoric of hate in the name of tolerance, decide that lefties are no better than the ones they’re criticizing and therefore choose not to join their ranks. A lot of the time it is more effective to tread carefully and educate people, at least to begin with, but how long should people have to wait for things to change? After a while you’ve got to realise that people aren’t listening, and aren’t going to change on their own. Maybe in this case she could have eventually worn them down and gotten the rules changed, but I doubt it. And even then there’s no way the school would have done it in time for the prom. At least now there’s a chance that they’ll change things for future students, whereas if she hadn’t made a fuss it would have carried on quietly and unchallenged. _P.S. I’d like to complement you on how well you hid your political bias in that post. Particularly considering which party is famous around the world for it’s “rhetoric”, “anger” and “hate”. :rolleyes:_ > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Also, I don’t live in the US, so the Constitution doesn’t exist to protect _my_ rights. And there are probably a lot of people in the US who feel the Constitution doesn’t exist to protect _their_ rights, either, but it’s not a subject I’m interested in debating at this time. I’m sure there’s something similar in Australia, whether it’s a single document or a collection of laws, unless you think Australians have no legal rights. (I’m assuming **AClockworkMelon** was correct with Australia, but if not I’m fairly sure every developed country has something similar). They may not be perfect, but they’re still important, and improving with each generation. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/548 "2010-07-20T19:41:52Z")
Update: **Victory for Constance McMillain** > [@](#): > > After getting an initial ruling from the federal judge that the school district had violated Constance’s free speech rights, we pressed ahead with the lawsuit. And yesterday, the school agreed to have judgment entered against it. This isn’t just a settlement, it means that the district is held liable for violating Constance’s rights — in other words: they caved. All the details are here: [http://gbge.aclu.org/blog/victory-constance-mcmillen](http://gbge.aclu.org/blog/victory-constance-mcmillen) Another story: [Mississippi School Agrees To Revise Policy And Pay Damages To Lesbian Teenager Denied Chance To Attend Prom | American Civil Liberties Union](http://www.aclu.org/lgbt-rights/mississippi-school-agrees-revise-policy-and-pay-damages-lesbian-teenager-denied-chance-a) ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/549 "2010-07-20T20:16:49Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Update: > > **Victory for Constance McMillain** Just the thread I was looking for to update. [Mississippi school pays damages to lesbian teen over prom dispute](http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/20/mississippi.lesbian.settlement/) 35k to be quit of the bad press. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/550 "2010-07-21T06:31:39Z")
That is fucking awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/551 "2010-07-21T15:29:42Z")
Well whaddaya know–the system works sometimes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108.md?page=27)