# US school cancels prom to avoid lesbian student bringing a date **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 11, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108 "2010-03-11T15:28:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/81 "2010-03-13T10:59:42Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The school expected a private organization such as a church to hold an alternate prom; knowing that such an organization could bar gays and yet would be shielded from a lawsuit unlike a public insititution. > > What they didn’t expect was the offer from the [American Humanist Association](http://www.americanhumanist.org/news/details/2010-03-humanists-prepare-to-hold-lgbt-inclusive-prom-in-miss) to be the one to step up to the plate, with an offer to host a gay-friendly event.. > > Religious conservatives are probably correct when they suppose their’s to be the majority view, but they also seem believe any dissenting views to be in such a minority as to be nonexistant. The next question is if some other organization will step up and create an alterna-prom, and how many students would rather go to that than the gay-friendly one. If the school was willing to try and keep homosexuals out, chances are a bunch of the student population feels the same way.+ ---
**Author:** ![rayman5321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@rayman5321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayman5321)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/82 "2010-03-13T13:06:03Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > “Mississippi - Making Utah look good since 1869.” Mississippi is the laughing stock of the U.S. It makes Kazakhstan look good. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/83 "2010-03-13T14:32:56Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’ll be very surprised if the suit is successful. I do not know of any legal requirement for a high school to hold a prom at all, therefore I do not expect the Judge to force them to hold one.. That’s not what’s being argued. The Complaint alleges that the school canceled the prom in an effort to suppress Ms. McMillen’s expressive speech (bringing her girlfriend and wearing a tuxedo). The ACLU alleges that the school canceled the dance because they feared the communicative content of McMillen’s actions (e.g. the communication to other students that she was a lesbian). Is that a long-shot? Definitely. But it isn’t transparently meritless, as you claim. All kinds of expressive conduct, including deciding what to wear, can constitute protected speech. If the school could not lawfully prohibit her from wearing a tuxedo to a school-sponsored event because of fear of communicative impact of that expression (a very plausible legal conclusion), the school may not be able to lawfully cancel the event for fear of the same communicative impact. It’s that last step that is the most gray, but I don’t think it is an implausible step. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/84 "2010-03-13T19:08:00Z")
> [@rayman5321](#): > > Mississippi is the laughing stock of the U.S. It makes Kazakhstan look good. > [@silenus](#): > > “Mississippi - Making Utah look good since 1869.” I may be from “the laughing stock of the U.S.” but at least I’ve got enough fucking manners not to blurt out shit like this. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/85 "2010-03-13T22:30:05Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > I may be from “the laughing stock of the U.S.” but at least I’ve got enough fucking manners not to blurt out shit like this. Agreed. Perfectly said, **NinetyWt**. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/86 "2010-03-13T23:37:03Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > It’s wrong that a girl that cute should be a sober lesbian. While we’re at it, what the fuck is this? A pretty girl can’t be a lesbian? I don’t think the word I want to use for you is allowed on this part of the boards. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/87 "2010-03-13T23:49:08Z")
> [@Teacake](#): > > While we’re at it, what the fuck is this? A pretty girl can’t be a lesbian? I don’t think the word I want to use for you is allowed on this part of the boards. That was mock disappointment that he wasn’t her type, not a statement that pretty girls can’t be lesbians. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/88 "2010-03-14T00:03:43Z")
Ah, caveman humour. No wonder I didn’t recognise it. Good that you can read his mind, though. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/89 "2010-03-14T02:04:57Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That’s not what’s being argued. > > The Complaint alleges that the school canceled the prom in an effort to suppress Ms. McMillen’s expressive speech (bringing her girlfriend and wearing a tuxedo). The ACLU alleges that the school canceled the dance because they feared the communicative content of McMillen’s actions (e.g. the communication to other students that she was a lesbian). > > Is that a long-shot? Definitely. But it isn’t transparently meritless, as you claim. All kinds of expressive conduct, including deciding what to wear, can constitute protected speech. If the school could not lawfully prohibit her from wearing a tuxedo to a school-sponsored event because of fear of communicative impact of that expression (a very plausible legal conclusion), the school may not be able to lawfully cancel the event for fear of the same communicative impact. It’s that last step that is the most gray, but I don’t think it is an implausible step. I don’t think the school did the right thing in canceling the prom, but I don’t understand how this argument could fly. McMillen has communicated to the entire world that she’s a lesbian and has a girlfriend at her high school (she’s been interviewed in the local, national and world news). How can the school’s canceling the prom be suppressing her right to communicate those facts to the other students at her school? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/90 "2010-03-14T06:10:02Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That’s not what’s being argued. > > The Complaint alleges that the school canceled the prom in an effort to suppress Ms. McMillen’s expressive speech (bringing her girlfriend and wearing a tuxedo). The ACLU alleges that the school canceled the dance because they feared the communicative content of McMillen’s actions (e.g. the communication to other students that she was a lesbian). > > Is that a long-shot? Definitely. But it isn’t transparently meritless, as you claim. All kinds of expressive conduct, including deciding what to wear, can constitute protected speech. If the school could not lawfully prohibit her from wearing a tuxedo to a school-sponsored event because of fear of communicative impact of that expression (a very plausible legal conclusion), the school may not be able to lawfully cancel the event for fear of the same communicative impact. It’s that last step that is the most gray, but I don’t think it is an implausible step. I bet the School Board is going to argue that they are not required to hold a prom at all, and thus can cancel it at will. I think there’s also an amendment to the State Constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman, as well as denying recognition to marriages in other states that don’t meet that definition, that could come in to play at some point. I haven’t seen the ACLU complaint, but I wonder if they’ve considered a challenge under the state Open Meetings law, in an attempt to nullify the administrative action taken at the board meeting? Maybe there was some technical/procedural violation… As for the AHA…Holy Shit. This is getting very interesting. The [AFA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Family_Association) is headquartered in Tupelo, which is near Itawamba County. I’m sure they’ll have something to say about it. All we need now is a car full of clowns and we’ll have a full blown circus… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/91 "2010-03-14T13:08:23Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > I don’t think the school did the right thing in canceling the prom, but I don’t understand how this argument could fly. McMillen has communicated to the entire world that she’s a lesbian and has a girlfriend at her high school (she’s been interviewed in the local, national and world news). How can the school’s canceling the prom be suppressing her right to communicate those facts to the other students at her school? Why did the Nazis in Skokie still need to March after their case became famous? The answer is that the protection provided by the First Amendment is not only for the opportunity to communicate in some manner, but also to do it in the same manner provided to everyone else, without regard to content (for the most part). If you can go to the park and sing anti-war songs, I go can to the park and sing pro-war songs, even if I could also post my songs on myspace. Of course, that only explains why excluding her from the prom based on her expressive conduct is unconstitutional. It does not explain why shutting down the prom altogether is. To get there, we need a little more doctrinal heavy lifting. I think the argument would be that when a government (even a school) creates a forum for expression, it cannot then close that forum because it learns that a particular speaker intends to express a particular view in an effort to censor that view. This argument is not as well-established as the first bit. > [@Oakminster](#): > > I haven’t seen the ACLU complaint, but I wonder if they’ve considered a challenge under the state Open Meetings law, in an attempt to nullify the administrative action taken at the board meeting? Maybe there was some technical/procedural violation… Here is the [Complaint](http://www.aclu.org/lgbt-rights/fulton-ms-prom-discrimination-complaint). ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/92 "2010-03-14T16:30:01Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Of course, that only explains why excluding her from the prom based on her expressive conduct is unconstitutional. It does not explain why shutting down the prom altogether is. To get there, we need a little more doctrinal heavy lifting. **I think the argument would be that when a government (even a school) creates a forum for expression, it cannot then close that forum because it learns that a particular speaker intends to express a particular view in an effort to censor that view.** This argument is not as well-established as the first bit. I read the complaint - thanks for posting it. It doesn’t make this argument, and I wonder why not. I hope that the complaint and publicity is enough to force the school to do the right thing and open up the prom. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/93 "2010-03-14T16:32:36Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > I read the complaint - thanks for posting it. It doesn’t make this argument, and I wonder why not. I hope that the complaint and publicity is enough to force the school to do the right thing and open up the prom. It doesn’t make that argument in detail because complaints do not generally offer detailed legal arguments. The purpose of the complaint is not to lay out all the legal positions, but just enough of the gist to give the Defendant an idea of what is being claimed. The complaint does make that argument in broad strokes, by alleging that canceling the prom was an effort to shut down a limited forum to squelch the content of the Plaintiff’s speech. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/94 "2010-03-14T17:03:19Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It doesn’t make that argument in detail because complaints do not generally offer detailed legal arguments. The purpose of the complaint is not to lay out all the legal positions, but just enough of the gist to give the Defendant an idea of what is being claimed. The complaint does make that argument in broad strokes, by alleging that canceling the prom was an effort to shut down a limited forum to squelch the content of the Plaintiff’s speech. Thanks for posting the complaint. It’s going to be interesting. They didn’t cite any controlling authority, but they do have some persuasive authority. I’ll be interested to see the school board’s response. Any word on when the hearing will be? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/95 "2010-03-14T17:29:35Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Thanks for posting the complaint. It’s going to be interesting. They didn’t cite any controlling authority, but they do have some persuasive authority. I’ll be interested to see the school board’s response. Any word on when the hearing will be? I haven’t heard. My guess is that there will be a hearing next week, given the time constraints of the preliminary injunction. It’s too bad the schedule is so tight, because the argument is not simple, and the judge is going to have to make a snap decision about the likelihood of success on the merits. No federal judge is going to want to order a school to hold a prom, and all the headache that would go into enforcing that order. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/96 "2010-03-14T18:06:08Z")
Last night Wanda Sykes invited the young woman in question, Constance McMillen, (via video-hookup) to come out to L.A. and be present when Wanda accepts an award from the P-FLAG (or GLADD?) organization for the work she has done in advancing acceptance of homosexuals… Maybe the 17 year old can give Wanda some tips on comedy while she is out there, as The Wanda Sykes Show continues to be a trainwreck of anti-funny, making Chevy Chase’s old show look hilarious in comparison. Wanda also asked Constance McMillen if she plans on getting the mollyfock out of Mississippi ASAP after graduation, and she said that she plans on going to both college and grad school in MS. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/97 "2010-03-14T18:55:29Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > …Wanda also asked Constance McMillen if she plans on getting the mollyfock out of Mississippi ASAP after graduation, and she said that she plans on going to both college and grad school in MS. Nobody ever said lesbians are necessarily smart. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/98 "2010-03-14T19:01:21Z")
Stay classy, **Boyo**. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/99 "2010-03-14T19:55:02Z")
It is worth noting that the facts of this case are part of a really common pattern in civil rights/liberties cases. A school cannot lawfully continue some aspect of discrimination in a program, so instead of ending the discrimination, it ends the program. When the NAACP first starting winning school segregation cases in the early 1950s, Southern school districts sometimes responded by just shutting down the whole district, white and black schools alike. You see the same pattern with afterschool activities and schools choosing to just ban all afterschool activities instead of ending discrimination about which ones are OK. Whether this is a winning legal strategy depends to some extent on the area of law. But in each case, it fails to be a successful long-term strategy for the schools because no one actually wants the result: no schools, no afterschool activities, or in this case, no prom. Win or lose the legal battle, I’m guessing that eventually this school is going to end up holding an inclusive prom. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108/100 "2010-03-14T21:30:18Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > …Wanda also asked Constance McMillen if she plans on getting the mollyfock out of Mississippi ASAP after graduation, and she said that she plans on going to both college and grad school in MS. In other words, rather than make it easy for the mouth-breathers, she’s picked the harder road of refusing to allow ignorance to force her from her home. Good for her! This is a young woman for any Mississipian to be proud of! (And another reminder for you Yankees - you mess with Southern women at your own peril!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-school-cancels-prom-to-avoid-lesbian-student-bringing-a-date/532108.md?page=6)