# US Senate wants us all to DIE! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957 "2005-12-16T19:06:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/21 "2005-12-17T01:34:44Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Figures, every time someone starts a thread about the Patriot Act, some pinko liberal communist has to come in and insult **America**. Why didn’t you include the next line of the song? You have something against God? This is just more proof of the war against christianity. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/22 "2005-12-17T02:36:01Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Protection without restraint is like a watchdog with no teeth. That one’s gonna bite ya in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/23 "2005-12-17T02:42:23Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Feingold or Craig for President in '08! Feingold was the only Senator who voted against the Patriot Act the FIRST time around. He’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/24 "2005-12-17T02:53:01Z")
> [@Talon Karrde](#): > > Why didn’t you include the next line of the song? You have something against God? This is just more proof of the war against christianity. It’s all part of our War On Christmas. Very hush hush. Wink wink say no more 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/25 "2005-12-17T02:54:29Z")
> [@elfbabe](#): > > Feingold was the only Senator who voted against the Patriot Act the FIRST time around. He’s awesome. I was against it all along. Can I be Vice Preznit? Mmmmmmm. Vice. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/26 "2005-12-17T03:06:54Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Figures, every time someone starts a thread about the Patriot Act, some pinko liberal communist has to come in and insult **America**. I wish they would use that money to start an “Anti-American Values Redemption Program”. People that hold deeply anti-American ideas could go to stations during pre-set times, show their anti-American values, revoke their citizenship, and get a $50,000 check and a green card to somewhere else like Venezuela or France. Those countries could have an exchange program with us as well. That way, everyone gets to cull the unhappy members of society and send them to live someplace where everyone is better off. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/27 "2005-12-17T04:03:38Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I wish they would use that money to start an “Anti-American Values Redemption Program”. People that hold deeply anti-American ideas could go to stations during pre-set times, show their anti-American values, revoke their citizenship, and get a $50,000 check and a green card to somewhere else like Venezuela or France. Those countries could have an exchange program with us as well. That way, everyone gets to cull the unhappy members of society and send them to live someplace where everyone is better off. Better raise the bar a bit. Add a few more zeroes. I make a lot more than that to just stay put 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/28 "2005-12-17T04:24:28Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > …People that hold deeply anti-American ideas could go to stations during pre-set times, show their anti-American values, revoke their citizenship, and get a $50,000 check and a green card to somewhere else like Venezuela or France. … Yeah, anti-American ideas like a disregard for human rights and civil liberties. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/29 "2005-12-17T04:49:42Z")
> [@JonScribe](#): > > Yeah, anti-American ideas like a disregard for human rights and civil liberties. All we’d have to do is show up with a copy of the constitution :eek: ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/30 "2005-12-17T05:04:47Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I wish they would use that money to start an “Anti-American Values Redemption Program”. People that hold deeply anti-American ideas could go to stations during pre-set times, show their anti-American values, revoke their citizenship, and get a $50,000 check and a green card to somewhere else like Venezuela or France. Those countries could have an exchange program with us as well. That way, everyone gets to cull the unhappy members of society and send them to live someplace where everyone is better off. One last parting shot before I go horizontal. Some of us still believe in the Constitution, including the Bill of Rights. Those are pretty American. Hint - so does the Supreme Court and (maybe) Congress. So when will you be collecting your $50K and bailing out? ROFLMAO ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/31 "2005-12-17T05:17:03Z")
> [@flintlock](#): > > That’s not a good thing. In fact, though, it’s not even a republic, but a confederation, and all the red states get two senate votes no matter how few people they have. Um, dipshit, can I bend your ear for just a minute? I live in one of the throwaway red states that have 2 Dem Senators. How’s bout we disregard their votes on the matter? We don’t count anyway. Seeing you have all the qualities based on this post to be one of the great defender’s of freedom here, lemme be the first to welcome you. Good to know since our borders don’t have the requisite number of citizens to actually count in anything, in your world, what we say or do doesn’t count for anything. Now then, I’d like to know how many people must reside in a state to make the Senator’s vote valid? If you delve into the issue further than parroting shit, you’ll see there are plenty of Democrats here. (We are stereotypicly one of the reddest states, yet the Congessional delgates are all Dems). Hmmm. But what do I know? I’m a red state conservative that voted for Pomeroy and Dorgan. I defer to your douchebaggedness. New word if nobody recognizes it. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/32 "2005-12-17T05:25:15Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > One last parting shot before I go horizontal. > Some of us still believe in the Constitution, including the Bill of Rights. Those are pretty American. Hint - so does the Supreme Court and (maybe) Congress. So when will you be collecting your $50K and bailing out? ROFLMAO Roll your ass to bed. Then come back when the Supreme Court rules on it. It may be illegal, but your opinion that it’s illegal doesn’t make it so. I’ve given up on getting all worked up over something the press reports because normally there’s another iminent downfall for tomorrow’s headline. Take a breath, see what comes of this. Otherwise it’s more of the same bashing people for what may happen. I’d Pit my neighbor for throwing snow on my house when clearing his driveway, but since it hasn’t happened yet, I’ll save my adrenaline for something more important. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/33 "2005-12-17T05:46:22Z")
I support the patriot act other than the bookstore and library searches. If wiretaps and other surveillance is available, the fact that someone bought “How to be a terrorist in five easy steps” isn’t going to add much to the evidence. That said… It’s easy to sit around and tell each other how witty and superior you are as the memory of 9/11 fades. Exhilarating to feel the spirit of the founding fathers putting their arms around your shoulders as you alone defend the constitution from the jack booted enemies of personal freedom. For many of you, the temptation to allow idealism to trump pragmatism without having to deal with the consequences will continue until the next attack. After that, some of you might clue in. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/34 "2005-12-17T06:16:26Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > For many of you, the temptation to allow idealism to trump pragmatism without having to deal with the consequences will continue until the next attack. After that, some of you might clue in. But I thought as long as we were fighting them over there, they couldn’t possibly make it over here? Did Bush lie to me? What about all that good work he says he’s done making the country safe from terrorists? Was that not true? Or is it the fault of “defeatist and cowards”? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/35 "2005-12-17T06:31:32Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > I support the patriot act other than the bookstore and library searches. If wiretaps and other surveillance is available, the fact that someone bought “How to be a terrorist in five easy steps” isn’t going to add much to the evidence. That said… > > It’s easy to sit around and tell each other how witty and superior you are as the memory of 9/11 fades. Exhilarating to feel the spirit of the founding fathers putting their arms around your shoulders as you alone defend the constitution from the jack booted enemies of personal freedom. > > For many of you, the temptation to allow idealism to trump pragmatism without having to deal with the consequences will continue until the next attack. After that, some of you might clue in. Not much time here, but Reason Magazine did take a look at the rotten “pragmatism” used to justify the Act and they already typed the clues that you really need to take in: [http://www.reason.com/links/links040605.shtml](http://www.reason.com/links/links040605.shtml) > [@](#): > > Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) and Arlen Specter (R-Penn.) both complained that the FBI and Department of Justice had been willfully reticent about providing Congress with information about the use of the PATRIOT Act, providing scanty details, often extraordinarily late. To borrow a phrase from the law-and-order crowd, if they have nothing to hide, what are they afraid of? > > The information we do have about the use of the PATRIOT Act doesn’t do a great deal to bolster the claims of its defenders. Though the Act is invariably described as “anti-terror legislation,” it seems clear that the majority of “sneak-and-peek” searches conducted under the law’s section 213, wherein law enforcement may conduct searches and decline to inform the search subjects they’ve occurred until many months later, are used primarily for investigations having nothing to do with terrorism. > > … > > What’s striking is how weak the case for the PATRIOT Act’s vital necessity as an anti-terror measure appears even when we focus on the Department of Justice’s handpicked examples, as provided in their “Report from the Field.” Law enforcement’s proud displays of PATRIOT’s effectiveness involve drug interdiction, computer hackings, child pornography, gambling, and a variety of other crimes notable for not being terrorism. > > The few uses of PATRIOT to foil ostensible terrorist plots aren’t particularly impressive either—certainly in none of those cases does it seem as though the delay that greater judicial oversight might’ve imposed would’ve been an insuperable obstacle. DOJ cites the likes of the Lackawanna Six or the “Virginia Jihad” group, also known as the “paintball terrorists.” In other words, as Slate’s Dahlia Lithwick puts it “disaffected bozos who watch cheesy training videos, admire their fine Gold’s Gym selves in the mirror, and try to take grandiose trips abroad.” > > When Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Penn.) noted that of 155 sneak-and-peak searches conducted under section 213’s authority—108 in the last 22 months alone—some 92 relied upon the catchall rationale for nondisclosure: Revealing a search had taken place risked “jeopardizing an investigation.” Which presumably means that those instances were not cases where disclosure of the search risked imminent harm to persons or property, suspect flight, destruction of evidence, or intimidation of witnesses. What, Specter wanted to know, were these other cases that required special “sneak-and peek-searches?” > > Director Mueller offered a story about intercepting Ecstasy imports from Canada. > > … > > Since Attorney General Gonzales has indicated that he’s “open to suggestions,” perhaps its time to shift the burden in the debate over the PATRIOT Act. The SAFE Act provides a narrow set of common-sense checks that would ease the concerns of civil libertarians while leaving intact many of the powers PATRIOT proponents say are vital. With the law back on the table, we can ask which of SAFE’s provision is so excessively protective of civil liberties that it would hamstring law enforcement. To make the case on those terms, PATRIOT’s defenders will have to do a better job than they’ve managed so far. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/36 "2005-12-17T07:03:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why does America hate America so much? These colors never run! Never Forget! United We Stand! In God We Trust! Remember our Troops! As Seen on TV! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/37 "2005-12-17T07:04:01Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > All we’d have to do is show up with a copy of the constitution :eek: The tongue of a Kohm would burn with fire if he tried to say the Holy Words… ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/38 "2005-12-17T07:06:22Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not much time here, but Reason Magazine did take a look at the rotten “pragmatism” used to justify the Act and they already typed the clues that you really need to take in: That doesn’t count. Reason is a Liberal Rag and thus a pack of dirty lies. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/39 "2005-12-17T07:12:56Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > That doesn’t count. Reason is a Liberal Rag and thus a pack of dirty lies. Nitpick: it is a \*libertarian \* rag, thus for many, that makes it an even bigger pack of dirty lies. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/40 "2005-12-17T08:13:38Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > But I thought as long as we were fighting them over there, they couldn’t possibly make it over here? > > Did Bush lie to me? What about all that good work he says he’s done making the country safe from terrorists? Was that not true? > > Or is it the fault of “defeatist and cowards”? Yes. It’s all about what today’s headline says. World politics run on the attention span of a crack-addled cheetah. We must all expect the results of policy to occur in the same time frame a message board does. We know you hate Bush. Fine. You don’t hate every single American nor America’s ideals in your criticism. Fine. Would we be better off with people like you declaring the fall of the Republic 4 seconds after a headline is posted online? You have a great forum here to tell us what is wrong with the plan as soon as it’s mentioned. No need to see if it actually might work. It’s just wrong and can’t work because you say it can’t. I wish you were in charge of everything so we humans could defer to a Supreme Being. :rolleyes: According to your ilk, we lost the Iraq theater a year ago. It took more than 50 years to effectively end the cold war. And those were white Christians for the most part we were fighting. But go ahead with your Playstation war gaming in thinking ths was ever going to be something resolved in the space of time it taked between your rants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957.md?page=3)