# US Senate wants us all to DIE! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957 "2005-12-16T19:06:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/41 "2005-12-17T08:50:10Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > But go ahead with your Playstation war gaming in thinking ths was ever going to be something resolved in the space of time it taked between your rants. Projecting too much there, it \*\*was \*\* Playstation war gaming thinking that gave us the Iraq war. Same way of thinking gave us the Patriot Act. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/42 "2005-12-17T16:20:56Z")
> [@Talon Karrde](#): > > Why didn’t you include the next line of the song? You have something against God? This is just more proof of the war against christianity. Since that whole 'put the “christ” back in Christmas fiasco, it has now become 'the war against xtianity." ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/43 "2005-12-17T16:35:09Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Roll your ass to bed. Then come back when the Supreme Court rules on it. It may be illegal, but your opinion that it’s illegal doesn’t make it so. I’ve given up on getting all worked up over something the press reports because normally there’s another iminent downfall for tomorrow’s headline. > > Take a breath, see what comes of this. Otherwise it’s more of the same bashing people for what may happen. I’d Pit my neighbor for throwing snow on my house when clearing his driveway, but since it hasn’t happened yet, I’ll save my adrenaline for something more important. Checking to see if this is the Pit. OK, it is. I was replying to that tired ass, lame ass, weak “get outta my country” bullshit. In short, this was an A and B conversation. Feel free to C your way out of it. You like the patriot Act? Fine and dandy. Personally, I think it was unnecessary, poorly written, and overall a piece of shit. It was rushed through Congress with inadequate time for any decent sort of review. Further, I still consider it unconstitutional. Really. Who the fuck cares what books I check out of the liberry? Who gives a damn if I go to “horny hamsters on crack” websites? Why should random roving wiretaps of citizens be allowed, where there is no probable cause or warrant? Tell me it didn’t happen. Give me cites that this increased activity makes us safer and is a worthwhile trade off. I can cite a very nice report saying we are not safer. Far from it. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Apparently, Congress is having second thoughts, including Specter (who used to support it). When the Act’s sponsors are worried that says something. DUH. Maybe Congress should get the hell out of the country. Maybe based on past rulings about privacy vs technology, the Supreme Court needs to get th hell out too. Besides, we were having a good old time until the Buzzkills showed up. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/44 "2005-12-17T16:48:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nitpick: it is a \*libertarian \* rag, thus for many, that makes it an even bigger pack of dirty lies. 😉 Oh libertarians. They’re the ones who are obsessed with individual rights, privacy, property, limited government, all that unAmerican Commie shit. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/45 "2005-12-17T16:52:10Z")
Yep, that’s us! We are the next “oppressed minority group.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/46 "2005-12-17T16:54:52Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > According to your ilk, we lost the Iraq theater a year ago. It took more than 50 years to effectively end the **cold war**. And those were white **Christians** for the most part we were fighting. What the hell are you smoking? They were the Commies fer chrissake! Godless Commies! Remember them? “Religion is the opiate of da people” Commies! God hating, religion hating, freedom hating, America hating Commies? The “we will bury you” Commies! The “guys who outlawed religion and seized churches” Commies! When did they become christians? Why didn’t I get the goddam memo?!?!?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/47 "2005-12-17T16:55:38Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Yes. It’s all about what today’s headline says. World politics run on the attention span of a crack-addled cheetah. We must all expect the results of policy to occur in the same time frame a message board does. > > Would we be better off with people like you declaring the fall of the Republic 4 seconds after a headline is posted online? I take it then we can count on your whining rants to quit until the supreme court rules on something, right? No more pit OPs from lil’ **duffer** , right? Not until there’s a SCOTUS ruling. Right? That’s what you’re saying, isn’t it, pinhead? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/48 "2005-12-17T17:01:08Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > It’s easy to sit around and tell each other how witty and superior you are as the memory of 9/11 fades. Exhilarating to feel the spirit of the founding fathers putting their arms around your shoulders as you alone defend the constitution from the jack booted enemies of personal freedom. > > For many of you, the temptation to allow idealism to trump pragmatism without having to deal with the consequences will continue until the next attack. After that, some of you might clue in. Not one provision of the PATRIOT Act would have stopped the WTC/Pentagon attack and there is no evidence that the act has been used to stop one attempted attack since that time (while Ashcroft did use its “penumbral” abilities to launch attacks against “pornographers” and in the War Against People Who Use Drugs). The reason that the WTC/Pentagon attack was successful was that the intelligence and law enforcement communities tend to be jealous little fiefdoms (even inside their overall departments) that refuse to share information or ideas. The PATRIOT Act has some lip service to the notion of getting them to play nice and share (as does the bill to enact the oddly named “Homeland Security” department), but there is no evidence, to date, that the agencies are actually cooperating better–and this administration created the Office of Special Planning for the express purpose of filtering out convergent messges from multiple groups if they did not meet the preconceived notions of the war planners, so there is no reason to believe that the current administration would actually take steps to implement the (tiny) provisions that are there. The PATRIOT Act has done nothing to make us safer, so your scenario is silly. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/49 "2005-12-17T17:04:18Z")
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Dick. How about this? How about we all keep up the whining in the Pit about stuff that hasn’t actually happened yet? How about we just keep on bitching about stuff that may or may not happen just so we can have the honor of our name being the OP if it does happen? And if it doesn’t happen? No worries. There’ll be something else to whine about tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/50 "2005-12-17T17:11:03Z")
That was in response to **Merijeek**. As far as the Patriot Act? I just can’t get worked up over it. Call me insular or uncaring or whatever name you can think of. I just can’t work up the rage to rant about it. I’m so damn ambivelent I don’t even have the desire to try to rant about it. My daily life isn’t much different now than it was before it went into effect. I’d apologize, but I care so little about it that even saying I’m trying to sympathize is disingenuous. There is way too much going on in the world to be able to spend the time and energy getting worked up over everything. It doesn’t affect me, it won’t affect me, and if it did affect me I’d be the kind of person they’re looking for in the first place. I understand why you’re upset about it. That doesn’t mean I have to be as upset as you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/51 "2005-12-17T17:25:13Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Not one provision of the PATRIOT Act would have stopped the WTC/Pentagon attack and there is no evidence that the act has been used to stop one attempted attack since that time… Are you serious? If the heightened security measures of the Patriot Act have actually prevented an attack, do you think that you would have received a packet of notarized depositions in the mail detailing all the evidence? Just because the administration hasn’t decided to publish its methods and successes on the front page of the New York Times doesn’t mean that they haven’t been effective. > [@tomndebb](#): > > but there is no evidence, to date, that the agencies are actually cooperating better– Apparently you are privy to the inner workings of the national security apparatus as well. Perhaps you can pass along some cool secrets. > [@tomndebb](#): > > The PATRIOT Act has done nothing to make us safer, so your scenario is silly. The fact that an attack hasn’t happened in over four years is, in a bizarre way, part of the problem. The more successful attack prevention is, the more complacent some folks become. That’s why I made my remark about idealism without consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/52 "2005-12-17T17:28:34Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > As far as the Patriot Act? I just can’t get worked up over it. Careful Duffer. _Enemy of the State_ is real, you know. Even now, thugs are lacing up their jackboots to sneak into your house and plant audio and video devices to record which hand you amuse yourself with. (The jackboots are a little bulky when sneaking around, but you have to sacrifice comfort for style.) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/53 "2005-12-17T17:32:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps you can pass along some cool secrets. Nah. You’d just blab them around. Given the opposition to the PATRIOT Act from people of all political camps (see the current Republican Senate vote), had there actually been an instance when the PA achieved some good, the administration would have been all over the publication of that fact. This administration has blabbed several secrets in order to make political points, so the fact that they could not even tell one of their Republican supporters in the Senate enough information to at least make the claim says volumes about how little the PA has done. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/54 "2005-12-17T17:38:08Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > If the heightened security measures of the Patriot Act have actually prevented an attack, do you think that you would have received a packet of notarized depositions in the mail detailing all the evidence? Why, effectively…yes. Yes, I do think I would receive notice, although not in the form you suggest. Rather, I’d expect the much easier to meet standard of a White House press release, skimpy on the details. It seems to me that, at this point, the Bush administration should be trumpeting _any_ minor success they have. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/55 "2005-12-17T17:38:57Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Dick. > > How about this? How about we all keep up the whining in the Pit about stuff that hasn’t actually happened yet? How about we just keep on bitching about stuff that may or may not happen just so we can have the honor of our name being the OP if it does happen? And if it doesn’t happen? No worries. There’ll be something else to whine about tomorrow. I know you’ve got a really tiny brain, but you should at least try to remember what you’ve said lately. Specifically, this: > [@pinhead](#): > > Roll your ass to bed. Then come back when the Supreme Court rules on it. It may be illegal, but your opinion that it’s illegal doesn’t make it so. I’ve given up on getting all worked up over something the press reports because normally there’s another iminent downfall for tomorrow’s headline. So I assume you’ll not complain until it’s prudent to do so - which, apparently, involves a SCOTUS ruling. At least try to be consistent in your crap. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/56 "2005-12-17T18:40:25Z")
> [@Digital Stimulus](#): > > Why, effectively…yes. Yes, I do think I would receive notice, although not in the form you suggest. Rather, I’d expect the much easier to meet standard of a White House press release, skimpy on the details. It seems to me that, at this point, the Bush administration should be trumpeting _any_ minor success they have. [Fact Sheet: Plots, Casings, and Infiltrations Referenced in President Bush’s Remarks on the War on Terror](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/10/20051006-7.html) (October 2005) > [@](#): > > Overall, the United States and our partners have disrupted at least ten serious al-Qaida terrorist plots since September 11–including three al-Qaida plots to attack inside the United States. We have stopped at least five more al-Qaida efforts to case targets in the United States or infiltrate operatives into our country. Some of the ten successes are kinda dodgy. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/57 "2005-12-17T18:45:06Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Would we be better off with people like you declaring the fall of the Republic 4 seconds after a headline is posted online? > > You have a great forum here to tell us what is wrong with the plan as soon as it’s mentioned. No need to see if it actually might work. It’s just wrong and can’t work because you say it can’t. > > I wish you were in charge of everything so we humans could defer to a Supreme Being. :rolleyes: > > According to your ilk, we lost the Iraq theater a year ago. It took more than 50 years to effectively end the cold war. And those were white Christians for the most part we were fighting. > > But go ahead with your Playstation war gaming in thinking ths was ever going to be something resolved in the space of time it taked between your rants. Was it Cheney or Rumsfeld who said we would be greeted as liberators? Who told us the war was going to be short an inexpensive? Who keep telling us the insurgency is in it’s “last throes”? It would be nice if our government actually had a plan for “Victory in Iraq” because so far, it seems to be a combination of Chanting" Stay the Course", “Cowards cut and run”" and then chastising anyone who finding this rather unsubstansive as “defeatists” or “wanting the terrorists to win”. It would have been nice if they had plans for all possible contingencies when they invaded in the first place. You know, like planning for the possibility for an insurgency, which anybody with a high school education could reasonably deduce as a distinct possibly. Or, since we were looking for weapons of Mass Destruction, actually secure all of those ammo dumps we captured on the way to baghdad, instead of just putting a few locks on the doors and then taking off, letting anyone with a bolt cutter take off with the contents withen? And since this war is so fucking important to the future of Western Civilization, how about not cutting taxes yet again to we can actually afford to pay for it? The Soviets? Christians? I thought they were Godless Commies? Isn’t that why it was so damn important that we put God in the pledge of alliegience and on our money in the 1950’s? Oh, and BTW, Duffer, I haven’t always had such contempt for Bush. I voted for him 5 years ago, but the actions of the right(people such as yourself) and the adminstration have turned my support to comtempt. Your ilk is doing nothing to reverse that trend, since you can’t offer a defense, but rather perfer to insinuate that anything bad that happens is the fault of the domestic oppostion, rather then the guys who have been completely running the government for 5 fucking years. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/58 "2005-12-17T18:48:30Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > The fact that an attack hasn’t happened in over four years is, in a bizarre way, part of the problem. The more successful attack prevention is, the more complacent some folks become. That’s why I made my remark about idealism without consequence. Of course, if there is another attack, it’s because the liberals and democrats are emboldening terrorists. Heads, I win. Tails, you lose. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/59 "2005-12-17T18:52:39Z")
> [@White House](#): > > Overall, the United States and our partners have disrupted at least ten serious al-Qaida terrorist plots since September 11–including three al-Qaida plots to attack inside the United States. We have stopped at least five more al-Qaida efforts to case targets in the United States or infiltrate operatives into our country. We also disrupted at least three al Qaida attempts on the U.S. between 1993 and 2002 prior to the passage of the PA and there is no reason to believe that the ten “disruptions” were the result of actions taken explicitly due to the PA, (particularly since no one in the administrtion could point to any specific action when begging their same-party-controlled Senate to vote to continue the PA). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957/60 "2005-12-17T20:21:26Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > The fact that an attack hasn’t happened in over four years is, in a bizarre way, part of the problem. The more successful attack prevention is, the more complacent some folks become. That’s why I made my remark about idealism without consequence. I agree, EvilOne. The fact that something hasn’t happened, is a problem. It is used as “proof” of something else. It’s a false connection and is easy to show how, with an example… _I wear a Micky Mouse hat. The old felt one from the Fifties. Ears and everything. I’ve never been eaten by a shark. IT MUST BE THE HAT!!!_ You can’t take the failure of an event to happen, and then use that as proof of something that could well be totally unrelated. We all know the Administration likes to spin whatever they get their hands on. EVERY administration does it. We also know they like tho take credit for everything good… Again, EVERY administration does it. **So why on Og’s green earth, aren’t the great successes being trumpeted to the heavens?** Probably because there are none? I’m talking real and verifiable terror victories here, not some pimply porn collector or dope peddling strip club operator (which by the way, were NOT the purpose of the Patriot Act, and instead illustrate that it is being abused and improperly applied). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-senate-wants-us-all-to-die/335957.md?page=4)