# US: Separation of Church and State **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011 "2008-10-22T03:13:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/1 "2008-10-22T03:13:07Z")
Guess what? You guys SUCK at the separation of church and state: probably worse than any other democracy. You bring religion into everything and then pretend that you’re a free society with respect to religious beliefs. You’re stuck in a fundamental Christian dogma that no other western democracy subscribes to. Get over it. So, let the pitting begin. But you know what? I’m 100% correct here. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/2 "2008-10-22T03:24:58Z")
What exactly is there to argue? You’ve presented no facts, just a few blanket generalizations and a proclamation, which you’ve already deemed to be 100% correct. I’d suggest if anyone needed to get over one’s self, it is you. Oh, and Jesus is on my side. ---
**Author:** ![Jesus\_Harold\_Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f14d63/32.png) [@Jesus\_Harold\_Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesus_Harold_Christ)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/3 "2008-10-22T03:25:16Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Guess what? You guys SUCK at the separation of church and state: probably worse than any other democracy. You bring religion into everything and then pretend that you’re a free society with respect to religious beliefs. > > You’re stuck in a fundamental Christian dogma that no other western democracy subscribes to. Get over it. > > So, let the pitting begin. But you know what? I’m 100% correct here. It is too bad we can’t be like our neighbors to the north where the head of state has her own fucking church. ---
**Author:** ![Jesus\_Harold\_Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f14d63/32.png) [@Jesus\_Harold\_Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesus_Harold_Christ)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/4 "2008-10-22T03:28:22Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Oh, and Jesus is on my side. Only if you buy me porno. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/5 "2008-10-22T03:30:33Z")
For the record, several European countries have state-funded churches. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/6 "2008-10-22T03:31:05Z")
This isn’t a debate. I put it in the pit for a purpose. Americans are idiots when it comes down to religion and politics. There. I said it. But seriously, voting on parties based upon religious dogma is probably unheard of in the rest of the western world: no? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/7 "2008-10-22T03:31:20Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Guess what? You guys SUCK at the separation of church and state: probably worse than any other democracy. Damn straight. I live in a state, and seems like there’s churches _everywhere_. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/8 "2008-10-22T03:31:29Z")
I’m coming around to the notion that the US ought to declare an offical Christian state religion. Then it will fuck it up so bad that the ranks of atheists will swell enormously. I’m basing this on Europe. So many of the countries have state-sponsored religions, but their populations are far more secular than the US. I’m not sure why this is, but I’m guessing that state sponsorship is a huge turnoff to religious faith. So if we want to get serious about promoting atheism, nothing beats a shitty official religion. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/9 "2008-10-22T03:37:27Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Guess what? You guys SUCK at the separation of church and state: probably worse than any other democracy. You bring religion into everything and then pretend that you’re a free society with respect to religious beliefs. > > You’re stuck in a fundamental Christian dogma that no other western democracy subscribes to. Get over it. > > So, let the pitting begin. But you know what? I’m 100% correct here. Yes, you are. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/10 "2008-10-22T03:49:23Z")
> [@Jesus\_Harold\_Christ](#): > > It is too bad we can’t be like our neighbors to the north where the head of state has her own fucking church. Religion never, ever, ever, comes into politics here. We just elected a new Prime Minister. I have absolutely no idea what Steven Harper’s religious beliefs are. Who cares? Why should that matter at all? I know his taxation and business policies. I know his stance on carbon emissions and fiscal restraint. He’s a hockey fan. Why do I care what deity (or lack thereof) he prays to? ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/11 "2008-10-22T03:52:38Z")
People with moral values stricter than yours are not necessarily Christian zealots (or Christians, for that matter). And there are constant campaigns to keep religion out of the state; the issue over prayer in schools (which I don’t support) is from a minority of people (in an overwhelmingly Christian nation) to put prayer into schools not to take it out. If these sorts of things were the other way around, then you might have a point. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/12 "2008-10-22T03:53:27Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Religion never, ever, ever, comes into politics here. We just elected a new Prime Minister. I have absolutely no idea what Steven Harper’s religious beliefs are. … He’s a hockey fan. Please explain the hypocrisy. :D:D ---
**Author:** ![IGJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/igjoe/32/5420_2.png) [@IGJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IGJoe)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/13 "2008-10-22T03:54:29Z")
> [@](#): > > We just elected a new Prime Minister. I have absolutely no idea what Steven Harper’s religious beliefs are. Actually, we just elected the same Prime Minister. And if you have absolutely no idea what Harper’s religious beliefs are then you are not paying enough attention to his background. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/14 "2008-10-22T03:59:13Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > This isn’t a debate. I put it in the pit for a purpose. > > Americans are idiots when it comes down to religion and politics. There. I said it. But seriously, voting on parties based upon religious dogma is probably unheard of in the rest of the western world: no? You got it. One of our biggest political parties is the Christian Democratic Union and our head of state is from it. Oh, wait, that’s from _another_ democracy… ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/15 "2008-10-22T04:00:53Z")
> [@IGJoe](#): > > Actually, we just elected the same Prime Minister. And if you have absolutely no idea what Harper’s religious beliefs are then you are not paying enough attention to his background. Therefore his religious background is insignificant in the role of Prime Minister. He’s a Christian and possibly goes to church. That’s all I know. Why should I care any more? I think he’s protestant: I don’t know. No one in the media felt it necessary to point it out. Again, we don’t care. What fucking difference would it make? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/16 "2008-10-22T04:07:14Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Therefore his religious background is insignificant in the role of Prime Minister. He’s a Christian and possibly goes to church. That’s all I know. Why should I care any more? I think he’s protestant: I don’t know. No one in the media felt it necessary to point it out. Again, we don’t care. What fucking difference would it make? The fact that you don’t know doesn’t mean nobody cares. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/17 "2008-10-22T04:13:44Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > The fact that you don’t know doesn’t mean nobody cares. Well, yes it does. We don’t care. I suppose Stéphane Dion is a Catholic, since he’s of French heritage, but I have no idea nor do I care one fucking iota! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/18 "2008-10-22T04:24:20Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > The fact that you don’t know doesn’t mean nobody cares. Conveniently, those who care were not in a position to disproportionately influence the election. In fact, if Harper had gone out of his way to express and explain his faith, as any American candidate has to, he’d’ve hurt his campaign. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/19 "2008-10-22T04:31:30Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Well, yes it does. We don’t care. I don’t know what McCain’s religious background is, thus Americans must not care about it. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011/20 "2008-10-22T05:57:58Z")
:rolleyes: Not all of us are insanely religious. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-separation-of-church-and-state/469011.md?page=2)