# US Shutdown Crisis: Day 11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 11, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997 "2013-10-11T16:49:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/1 "2013-10-11T16:49:34Z")
I’ve lost track of which threads say what. Here’s today’s offering, following yesterday’s GOP attempt to float a six week debt ceiling hike to uncouple that from the shutdown problem. [http://bigstory.ap.org/article/house-gop-white-house-seeking-end-budget-fight](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/house-gop-white-house-seeking-end-budget-fight) Republicans are offering to end the shutdown, hike the debt ceiling and ease the sequester spending if Obama will agree to budget cuts on things he’s in favor of. Details are sketchy but increased means testing for medicare might be acceptable to Republicans. > [@](#): > > Officials say House Republicans are offering to pass legislation to avert a default and end the partial government shutdown as part of a package that includes cuts in benefit programs. > > Senior aides to Speaker John Boehner and Majority Leader Eric Cantor outlined the proposal at a late-night White House meeting Thursday with senior administration officials. > > In addition to ending the shutdown and increasing the debt limit, the proposal includes an easing of the across-the-board spending cuts that began taking effect a year ago, and replacing them with curbs in benefit programs that Obama himself has backed. It’s a big offer from the Pubs. It would solve a bunch of problems provided Obama is personally willing to take the pain of cuts to benefits programs which he supports and is also willing to ‘negotiate’. He probably would be, but I’m not sure it’s the best move. I think he should stick with his no negotiating guns but he’s a better grown-up than I am. Devil’s in the details, of course. Oh, an Ted Cruz continues to stoke the Fires of Stupid, claiming that Obamacare is forcing Christian companies to distribute abortificants. > **[Ted Cruz Calls Birth Control 'Abortifacients'](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ted-cruz-birth-control_n_4084857)** > > Ted Cruz Calls Birth Control 'Abortifacients' No surrender, Ted! ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/2 "2013-10-11T17:07:38Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I’ve lost track of which threads say what. Here’s today’s offering, following yesterday’s GOP attempt to float a six week debt ceiling hike to uncouple that from the shutdown problem. Situation: There are too many threads. Solution: Start a new thread. Situation: There are too many threads plus 1. [Where have I heard this one before?](http://xkcd.com/927/) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/3 "2013-10-11T17:21:28Z")
I’m not complaining that there are too many threads. I’m complaining that they’re not properly numbered and organized. This looks like a situation for a Librarian! Also: Ted Cruz continues to be a chickenfucker. In case you were wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/4 "2013-10-11T17:50:24Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > It’s a big offer from the Pubs. It would solve a bunch of problems provided Obama is personally willing to take the pain of cuts to benefits programs which he supports and is also willing to ‘negotiate’. He probably would be, but I’m not sure it’s the best move. I think he should stick with his no negotiating guns but he’s a better grown-up than I am. Its not a good offer. Obama was willing to sign on to cuts to Medicare/Medicaid _in return for increased revenue_. That’s different then saying he wants them. This is basically the hundreth iteration of the same thing, the GOP offers something both sides want (to end the gov’t shutdown) in return for something they want (cuts to Medicare/Medicaid). That’s not really negotiating, and Obama has made pretty clear he isn’t entertaing it. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/5 "2013-10-11T18:29:02Z")
I don’t think it’s a _good_ deal - I just think it might be a deal Obama could live with. The Pubs here aren’t just offering a deal on the shutdown but on the shutdown, the debit limit and the sequester spending. (Well, caveat. We don’t have details.) For all that, it might be worth discussing a restructuring of benefits. I’m guessing that if the Reps are willing to implement means testing medicare, it would be more on paper than reality. It would give them a way to say - see? Obama is limiting medicare without explaining the asterisk on “limiting medicare to people who make under $500M a year” or whatever. I could say Obama saying, sure, fine, make it my fault as long as we get this shutdown/sequester/debt limit over with. I don’t know. You’re right though. I don’t think it’s a good deal. Elsewhere - Peter King (R-NY) thinks the Tea Party has lost this fight and says that if Boehner doesn’t bring a clean bill to the floor, he will personally bring the discharge vote that the Dems want. > [@](#): > > King told Hunt that if Boehner doesn’t bring a clean resolution to the floor to fund the government, then King himself will support a discharge petition, in which a majority in the House can order the chamber to vote on an item. > > “If we have to do a discharge petition, ultimately, we will, but this is going to come,” said King. > > Blanket opposition by Republicans to the Affordable Care Act, King said, “goes against the country.” Rather than bring all of the government’s operations to a standstill over the law, he said, “if we can eliminate some of the parts of it that don’t work or could work better, let’s do it.” It’s all very glass-half-full but he’s a high-profile congressman who’s willing to talk on the record that the Tea Party has lost it. So that’s an improvement. Even More Elsewhere - the “values voters” conference is going on and Fox News’ new personality, Ben Carson, tackles the abortion issue with all the grace and sensitivity we’ve come to expect from conservative men. [http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/11/fox-news-ben-carson-re-educate-the-women-because-they-get-all-riled-up-over-abortion/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/11/fox-news-ben-carson-re-educate-the-women-because-they-get-all-riled-up-over-abortion/) > [@](#): > > “You know, there are those of us in this society who have told women that there’s a war on them because that cute little baby inside of them, they may want to get rid of it and there are people that are keeping you from doing that,” Carson continued. “And women say, ‘No, no, they’re not doing that to me! No!’ And they get all riled up.” > > He added there was obviously not a “war on women” because men give up their seats to pregnant women. So not a great day to be a Republican, all in all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/6 "2013-10-11T18:32:05Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > … Ted Cruz continues to be a chickenfucker. In case you were wondering. The chickens are not willing. They have standards. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/7 "2013-10-11T18:33:14Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I don’t think it’s a _good_ deal - I just think it might be a deal Obama could live with. The Pubs here aren’t just offering a deal on the shutdown but on the shutdown, the debit limit and the sequester spending. (Well, caveat. We don’t have details.) That’s not really a deal at all. The GOP has said they don’t want to default, and want to end the Sequester and shutdown. How is there being willing to do things that they say they want to do anyways, and somehow get something Obama doesn’t want in return, a “good deal”? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/8 "2013-10-11T18:42:06Z")
Isn’t ‘Peter _“too many mosques in this country”_ King says something rational’ one of the signs of the apocalypse? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/9 "2013-10-11T19:20:11Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > …Republicans are offering to end the shutdown, hike the debt ceiling and ease the sequester spending if Obama will agree to budget cuts on things he’s in favor of. Details are sketchy but increased means testing for medicare might be acceptable to Republicans. … “Obama and the Senate Democrats voted to reduce your medicare! Tell those Washington insiders to keep the government’s hands of your medicare and vote for me. This message was approved by Charles Emerson Winchester, Republican for Senate.” And, means testing: 1. Adds a layer of bureaucracy to make sure only eligible recipients get medicare 2. Doesn’t save much money, since you’re only going to cut a few percent of the richest people off the medicare rolls. 3. Makes medicare start to look like a welfare program, rather than a program where everyone contributes and everyone benefits. Soon, there will be calls to cut the program lower, get those medicare queens off the dole, and so on. So, it doesn’t save much and it creates an instant campaign ad for future Republicans. What’s not to love? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/10 "2013-10-11T19:21:51Z")
**Rhythmdvl** - I think it’s a sign that King knows where his votes are coming from, actually. **Simplico** - > [@Simplicio](#): > > That’s not really a deal at all. The GOP has said they don’t want to default, and want to end the Sequester and shutdown. How is there being willing to do things that they say they want to do anyways, and somehow get something Obama doesn’t want in return, a “good deal”? Like I keep saying - I don’t think it is a good deal. But you know, I’m not actually expecting to get a _good_ deal, even with Republican poll numbers tanking. ([Sam Wang is saying current events are sufficiently bad that he’s willing to predict that the Pubs have only a 50% chance to hold onto the House.](http://election.princeton.edu/2013/10/10/a-prediction-for-2014-house-elections-take-1/)) I don’t think the Republicans are really motivated by anything other than saving face at this point. They’re going to keep pushing bad deal after bad deal until they find one that the Democrats can hold their nose and vote for. So a deal that opens the government, lifts the debt ceiling a reasonable amount and begins to fix the sequester problem - probably worth discussing, imo. And they are discussing it. “Signs of Progress,” sez the Times. > **[Divide Narrows as Talks to Resolve Fiscal Crisis Go On (Published 2013)](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/us/politics/budget-and-debt-limit-debate.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0)** > > President Obama and Congressional Republicans on Friday showed greater flexibility but headed into the weekend without a deal to reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling. > [@](#): > > Senator Rob Portman, Republican of Ohio, said there was no breakthrough, but a general sense that at least the two sides were listening to each other now. “The president was willing to listen as well as give his point of view,” he said. “So I think it was helpful.” > > Senate Republicans were still debating several options internally even as they met with Mr. Obama and Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. One proposal under consideration included both a stopgap spending measure and a debt ceiling extension that would last through the end of January, coupled with the promise of an immediate start to a conference for bipartisan budget negotiations focused on a broader bargain that would include spending cuts and entitlement changes. > > The plan would also repeal a medical device tax, provide flexibility to government agencies on how to carry out the across-the-board spending cuts known as sequestration, and tighten the income verification rules for the new health care exchanges. I’m not enthused about any of that, really. A four month debt ceiling increase is fool’s gold, imo, and a bipartisan budget committee is unlikely to be any more productive than the last one. On the upside though, Obama’s got Republicans praising him for listening now, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/11 "2013-10-11T19:24:49Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > So, it doesn’t save much and it creates an instant campaign ad for future Republicans. What’s not to love? I hear you. But you can’t solve a problem if no one’s even talking. Right now, Obama’s got Republicans running back and forth to him with plans and thanking him for listening. It’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/12 "2013-10-11T19:28:06Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I hear you. But you can’t solve a problem if no one’s even talking. Right now, Obama’s got Republicans running back and forth to him with plans and thanking him for listening. It’s a start. Well, the medicare thing is particularly bad, in my view. But, the other things that are in the plan are also things only Republicans want. No new revenue? No immigration reform? Nothing that would appeal to Democrats at all? It’s still not a negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/13 "2013-10-11T19:30:59Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > [ > Like I keep saying - I don’t think it is a good deal. And I’m saying good or bad is irrelevant, its not a deal in any sense, which is why it won’t happen. The GOP getting something they want in return for something else they want isn’t a deal. > [@](#): > > I don’t think the Republicans are really motivated by anything other than saving face at this point. They’re going to keep pushing bad deal after bad deal until they find one that the Democrats can hold their nose and vote for. So a deal that opens the government, lifts the debt ceiling a reasonable amount and begins to fix the sequester problem - probably worth discussing, imo. No doubt. One that trades benefit cuts for those same things isn’t worth discussing, however. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/14 "2013-10-11T20:02:59Z")
> [@](#): > > In addition to ending the shutdown and increasing the debt limit, the proposal includes an easing of the across-the-board spending cuts that began taking effect a year ago, and replacing them with curbs in benefit programs that Obama himself has backed. So, they’re willing to let spending rise on everything, then just cut it back on programs favored by Democrats. Gee, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/15 "2013-10-11T22:18:51Z")
The Whitehouse shares your skepticism but is willing to keep listening. > **[Stalemate Continues In Congress](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/government-shutdown-2013_n_4084405)** > > Stalemate Continues In Congress > [@](#): > > The White House has concerns with a House Republican proposal to temporarily open the government and raise the nation’s debt limit, with press secretary Jay Carney saying “the president’s position” that he won’t “pay a ransom in exchange for Congress doing its job remains as true today” as it always has. > > But he offered a rhetorical olive branch to the GOP, saying “there have been constructive talks.” “It is a marked difference from where we had been,” Carney said. "The president appreciates the approach the speaker and others have taken. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-11/670997/16 "2013-10-12T03:48:54Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > The Whitehouse shares your skepticism but is willing to keep listening. > > [Government Shutdown 2013: Stalemate Continues In Congress (LATEST UPDATES) | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/11/government-shutdown-2013_n_4084405.html#441_white-house-offers-gop-rhetorical-olive-branch) The Republicans want to hit the reset button and try to reposition themselves so that the next time they take the economy hostage, they can do it without making it so obviously their fault.