# US Shutdown Crisis: Day 12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 12, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079 "2013-10-12T16:35:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/1 "2013-10-12T16:35:40Z")
On the Twelfth Day of Shutdown, my True Love gave to me - Twelve Interns fighting Eleven Pubbies grumbling Ten Texans rumbling Nine Ladies lunching Eight Moderates milling Seven Spokesmen mumbling Six Teabags dangling [FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE GOOOOOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOLD RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINGS](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5iu_JNvPII) Four Reporters typing Three iPhones Two Camera Crews and a Black Guy in the President’s Chair I’m thinking of dumping my True Love. To be honest with you. So yesterday’s deal with the house is going nowhere. Boehner, who enjoyed Chinese for lunch, says there’s been no deal. > **[White House Rejects House GOP Debt Ceiling Offer](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/house-republicans-plan-shutdown_n_4089623)** > > White House Rejects House GOP Debt Ceiling Offer > [@](#): > > House Republicans said Saturday that the White House has rejected their offer to temporarily increase the debt ceiling and open the government. > > Members leaving a closed-door meeting said House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) told them talks with President Barack Obama on how to end the government shutdown and avert the looming Oct. 17 deadline to raise the nation’s borrowing cap, had reached a dead end. There was also concern that the White House might strike a deal with Senate Republicans, who presented their own plan to Obama on Friday. The Senate deal mentioned there refers to a plan led by Susan Collins and a bipartisan group in the Senate to extend the debt ceiling through January and delay the Medical Device Tax by two years, picking up funds instead via “pension smoothing”. [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/11/senate-gop-growing-impatient-with-house/?hpt=po\_c1](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/11/senate-gop-growing-impatient-with-house/?hpt=po_c1) > **[New Senate Gang Crafting Deal To End Fiscal Showdown](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/senate-deal-showdown_n_4089288?1381592898=)** > > New Senate Gang Crafting Deal To End Fiscal Showdown Eddie Cantor is not a fan of that plan, hoping the Senate Republicans will stand strong with their House brethren. Also not a fan: Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz. Speaking at the ongoing Values Voters event, they said that Pubs need to stay strong and never stop working to repeal Obamacare. [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/11/will-house-gop-get-jammed-senate-cranks-up-role-in-budget-talks/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/11/will-house-gop-get-jammed-senate-cranks-up-role-in-budget-talks/) House leaders are worried they’re going to get stuck holding the bag for whatever the Senate comes up with. They might be right to be worried about that, too. Senate Dems are probably going to kill the Collins plan, though, saying it asks for too much and gives too little. They object to both the funding levels and the short term restart - > **[White House Rejects House GOP Debt Ceiling Offer](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/house-republicans-plan-shutdown_n_4089623?1381594240=)** > > White House Rejects House GOP Debt Ceiling Offer Reid and McConnell are going to try and work something out later today. Don’t hold your breath. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/2 "2013-10-12T17:10:44Z")
I don’t understand this senate thing, how can they possibly bypass the house? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/3 "2013-10-12T17:30:33Z")
Here’s another article about Senate efforts - > **['Cordial' shutdown talks under way in Senate | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2013/10/12/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)** > > Talks between House Speaker John Boehner and President Barack Obama over the government shutdown and looming debt limit deadline have hit a brick wall. Although the current Collins plan is probably dead in the water. The Senate is considering what they can come up with to get us out of this mess. If they can find a plan that gets buy-in from the Senate as a whole, and buy-in from the President, then that leaves the House Republicans all on their own to hold the line against Obamacare. The Republican Representatives are concerned that a Senate plan which is acceptable to everyone else won’t be acceptable to their hardline voters and they’ll be accused of a) caving to Obama and being RINOS while b) harming the US economy and business interests. So a Senate plan can’t force the House to do jack but it turns up the heat on them to find a solution, any solution. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/4 "2013-10-12T17:34:06Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t understand this senate thing, how can they possibly bypass the house? They can’t but the Senate needs to look like they’re legitimately trying here. The House may be safely gerrymandered but the Senate is not and right now the situation is destroying the chances for a GOP Senate takeover. The House leadership is (rightfully) worried about the optics when the Tea Party folks refuse to accept a Senate compromise and the story is “Deal agreed to by White House, Senate Dems, Senate GOP and House Dems is blocked by GOP House extremists”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/5 "2013-10-12T18:10:44Z")
Have we any reason to hope they will be dismayed by such a prospect? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/6 "2013-10-12T18:12:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Have we any reason to hope they will be dismayed by such a prospect? I seriously doubt it, and frankly i think it is terribly silly to derail the actual negotiations with the person that can actually do something to do something pointless like this. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/7 "2013-10-12T18:18:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Have we any reason to hope they will be dismayed by such a prospect? The House leadership probably cares. Whether they care more about that or more about what the Tea Party wants, who knows. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/8 "2013-10-12T18:20:45Z")
Wait, so the republicans all voted no on Collins plan? even her? ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/9 "2013-10-12T19:32:45Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Eddie Cantor is not a fan of that plan, hoping the Senate Republicans will stand strong with their House brethren. I’m not too worried about Eddie Cantor’s opinion, seeing as how he’s been [dead for 49 years.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Cantor)🙂 Eric Cantor might be more concerned than Eddie is. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/10 "2013-10-12T22:03:58Z")
The Apostle of Pep! I’m not even sure what I was thinking about when I wrote his name down. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Wait, so the republicans all voted no on Collins plan? even her? I’m not sure there ever was a vote on Collins’ plan. I think it was just being floated out there and was met with a mighty “meh” from all directions. Later in the day, there was a vote on a different Decomcratic-led Senate proposal to start work on a plan but it was defeated 53-47. (And if you just said - wait, but the Democrats got a majority of the votes, well, welcome to Morning Hangover in America.) It’s ok, though! Harry and Mitch are talking it over! > **[After Day Of Failure Trying To End Shutdown, New Meeting Could Be Last Hope](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/debt-ceiling-senate_n_4089740)** > > After Day Of Failure Trying To End Shutdown, New Meeting Could Be Last Hope > [@](#): > > “I hope that our talking is some solace to the American people and to the world. This hasn’t happened until now,” Reid said. “This should be seen as something very positive, even though we don’t have anything done yet and [have] a long ways to go before anything like that will happen.” Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. /cosby More about it from the WSJ - [http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303382004579131272746516790](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303382004579131272746516790) Just in case Reid’s bubby enthusiasm is too saccharine for you, here’s Morgan Griffth (R-Va) to ruin your evening: > **[GOP Rep Compares Default To American Revolution](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/default-american-revolution-morgan-griffith_n_4089911)** > > GOP Rep Compares Default To American Revolution > [@](#): > > “We have to make a decision that’s right long-term for the United States, and what may be distasteful, unpleasant and not appropriate in the short run may be something that has to be done,” Griffith said, according to The Hill. “I will remind you that this group of renegades that decided that they wanted to break from the crown in 1776 did great damage to the economy of the colonies. They created the greatest nation and the best form of government, but they did damage to the economy in the short run.” Top Men, everybody. Top. Men. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/11 "2013-10-13T01:13:30Z")
Ramen, for everybody! Ramen! (If we’re _that_ fucking lucky…) ---
**Author:** ![BezCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/53a042/32.png) [@BezCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BezCo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/12 "2013-10-13T05:13:15Z")
I don’t get it. Why doesn’t this seem to mean anything: “'At the end of the day, _ **you’re fighting legislation that’s already passed,** _” said former South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson…"’ Isn’t that important - as in key? Like it or not, ACA is a done deal. It’s a LAW already. Everyone keeps glossing past that, and why? If some don’t like it, shouldn’t they be following due and proper process in revising, repealing, etc. - instead of OBSTRUCTING the law and jeopardizing the economy to boot? The funding issues shouldn’t be cropping up now; the time for that has passed. Once it’s a LAW, how can a handful of people take it into their own hands? Can’t they be held in contempt or something? Are there any real experts out there that can shed any light on this? What are the legal facts? I’ve found hardly any mention on that, and I just don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/13 "2013-10-13T06:55:19Z")
> [@BezCo](#): > > I don’t get it. Why doesn’t this seem to mean anything: “'At the end of the day, _ **you’re fighting legislation that’s already passed,** _” said former South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson…"’ > > Isn’t that important - as in key? > > Like it or not, ACA is a done deal. It’s a LAW already. Everyone keeps glossing past that, and why? If some don’t like it, shouldn’t they be following due and proper process in revising, repealing, etc. - instead of OBSTRUCTING the law and jeopardizing the economy to boot? > The funding issues shouldn’t be cropping up now; the time for that has passed. Once it’s a LAW, how can a handful of people take it into their own hands? Can’t they be held in contempt or something? Are there any real experts out there that can shed any light on this? What are the legal facts? I’ve found hardly any mention on that, and I just don’t get it. Actually, the whole thing is practice - next they’ll be working on overturning Amendments without going through the usual process; parts of the First, and the Thirteenth. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/14 "2013-10-13T13:18:48Z")
> [@BezCo](#): > > I don’t get it. Why doesn’t this seem to mean anything: “'At the end of the day, _ **you’re fighting legislation that’s already passed,** _” said former South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson…"’ > > Isn’t that important - as in key? Of course it is. Then the Tea Party nuts counter with “Prohibition was a law! And the Fugitive Slave Act!” which, aside from the inanity of comparing the ACA to the Fugitive Slave Act, ignores the fact that neither law/amendment was repealed by refusing to do legislative work and instead threatening to shove the nation into economic collapse. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-shutdown-crisis-day-12/671079/15 "2013-10-13T13:46:40Z")
> [@BezCo](#): > > I don’t get it. Why doesn’t this seem to mean anything: “'At the end of the day, _ **you’re fighting legislation that’s already passed,** _” said former South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson…"’ > > Isn’t that important - as in key? > > Like it or not, ACA is a done deal. It’s a LAW already. Everyone keeps glossing past that, and why? If some don’t like it, shouldn’t they be following due and proper process in revising, repealing, etc. - instead of OBSTRUCTING the law and jeopardizing the economy to boot? > The funding issues shouldn’t be cropping up now; the time for that has passed. Once it’s a LAW, how can a handful of people take it into their own hands? Can’t they be held in contempt or something? Are there any real experts out there that can shed any light on this? What are the legal facts? I’ve found hardly any mention on that, and I just don’t get it. Well, there’s nothing that says laws can’t be repealed once they are passed. Not many people approve of this tactic, but it’s silly to imply that it’s somehow illegal. As for what can be done, did you not see [this thread in GD?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=704138)