# US Soldiers killing Afghani civilians. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493 "2012-03-11T21:49:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/161 "2012-03-23T11:19:13Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > [Afghan villagers say shootings were revenge](http://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/print/content/view/print/484011) > > As horrible as this is, doesn’t counterinsurgency usually end up like this? I am reminded of all of the times in the conflicts between native Americans and white settlers/US Army where there were massacres on both sides. Sometimes these were strategically planned by officers or chiefs but often they consisted of young hotheads running off to take revenge in spite of the authority figures’ attempts to reign them end and limit the violence. That is the sad thing about war and revenge, it just stirs up anger against each other, and in some cases it lasts for centuries,one just need to look to Isreal and the Palistinians,the hatred has gone on for centuries. It is not all the people but it doesn’t take much to stir up a person who does not want to co-operate with one’s neighbor. I could be wrong ,but I believe the majority would want peace, but there are some who are more interested in revenge,or who only want what they desire to happen. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/162 "2012-03-23T13:29:59Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > That is the sad thing about war and revenge, it just stirs up anger against each other, and in some cases it lasts for centuries,one just need to look to Isreal and the Palistinians,the hatred has gone on for centuries. It is not all the people but it doesn’t take much to stir up a person who does not want to co-operate with one’s neighbor. I could be wrong ,but I believe the majority would want peace, but there are some who are more interested in revenge,or who only want what they desire to happen. Quite an accomplishment since Israel has only been around since 1948 and Jewish immigration started in earnest after the British mandate of Palestine began in 1922. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/163 "2012-03-23T14:26:53Z")
… and which is entirely appropriate for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/164 "2012-03-23T23:18:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who are you to judge the Afghan justice system? You apparently don’t even know the difference between the Taliban and other Afghans. The Afghans really have no more reason to trust our military justice system than we have to trust their civilian system. Nonsense. To a nonprejudiced Afghan it will be obvious that the American system of justice is superior to what passes for “justice” in their country, considering this is a country where a man was almost put to death for converting to Christianity. Meanwhile most of America is horrified and angered by Bales’ shooting spree and demand justice. Politically, a conviction for Bales and life imprisonment or a death sentence is a practical necessity. > [@monavis](#): > > That is the sad thing about war and revenge, it just stirs up anger against each other, and in some cases it lasts for centuries,one just need to look to Isreal and the Palistinians,the hatred has gone on for centuries. It is not all the people but it doesn’t take much to stir up a person who does not want to co-operate with one’s neighbor. I could be wrong ,but I believe the majority would want peace, but there are some who are more interested in revenge,or who only want what they desire to happen. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has not gone on for “centuries”. There was significant Jewish immigration only after World War I and the first violence occurred in 1920. Nor was there real Palestinian national identity until far after that. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/165 "2012-03-23T23:37:09Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > To a nonprejudiced Afghan it will be obvious that the American system of justice is superior to what passes for “justice” in their country, considering this is a country where a man was almost put to death for converting to Christianity. Meanwhile most of America is horrified and angered by Bales’ shooting spree and demand justice. And what makes you think that the vast majority of Afghanis, “unprejudiced” or not have even the slightest idea of what the American justice system is or is not like? What makes you think they’d ever believe an American claim about Americans being horrified by the killings, when the indiscriminate killing of the people of Afghanistan (and all over the ME, for that matter) is a normal American pastime? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/166 "2012-03-23T23:48:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And what makes you think that the vast majority of Afghanis, “unprejudiced” or not have even the slightest idea of what the American justice system is or is not like? What makes you think they’d ever believe an American claim about Americans being horrified by the killings, when the indiscriminate killing of the people of Afghanistan (and all over the ME, for that matter) is a normal American pastime? I should have added _educated_ but its not as if Afghanistan is completely cut off from the rest of the world. One need only look at the posts here or comments for any news article to see that Americans are horrified. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/167 "2012-03-24T01:27:36Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > To a nonprejudiced Afghan it will be obvious that the American system of justice is superior to what passes for “justice” in their country Fwiw, its military court. You’re right, nonprejudiced Afghans obv. know about the US legal system as demonstrated by the “superior” Guantanamo. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/168 "2012-03-24T02:16:11Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Fwiw, its military court. > > You’re right, nonprejudiced Afghans obv. know about the US legal system as demonstrated by the “superior” Guantanamo. Exactly. You probably think this is a cutting remark, but to the average Afghani it probably doesn’t look that way. After all, we didn’t simply line them up and shoot them, nor torture them to death. Most likely they look on us as both soft and weak. Remember the yard stick they have…years of vicious civil war, preceded by the tender mercies dealt them by the Soviets, preceded by…well, centuries of fighting and invasion. Set next to that Gitmo probably looks like a resort to the average Afgan citizen. After all, we do feed these people, and they have a fairly comfortable living space, when we aren’t torturing them. Probably sounds pretty good to a large percentage of the folks living in that region, ehe? -XT ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/169 "2012-03-24T08:18:21Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > What should be done in cases of US soldiers killing Afghani civilians? What’s the best way to be sure that this soldier is sentenced appropriately and justice is served? American jurisdiction - For sure. American soil - yes. Just like transferring someone within the US to a neutral county. But it’s just so much more secure in America (than even inside a secure American controlled facility). Anyone inside Afghanistan that needs it can be flown safely to America. (of course SOFA already says he should be tried by US, so moot). ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/170 "2012-03-25T12:25:49Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Quite an accomplishment since Israel has only been around since 1948 and Jewish immigration started in earnest after the British mandate of Palestine began in 1922. Israel goes back centuries Jersulam was part of the Jewish state and many wars have been fought over what is called the"HOly" land.Which makes me wonder how a land or a building could be holier than people,it was taken over by the Romans,then Muslims, then Christians ,then Muslims again after various wars. Indeed ,no one would take in the Jewish refugees during the 40’s and the Palestineians agreed to take them in.They were given a state in 1948 and many Jewish people migrated back. There were people who didn’t want the Jewish people there and the Jewish people had to fight again to live in their state. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493/171 "2012-03-25T12:33:01Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Israel goes back centuries Jersulam was part of the Jewish state and many wars have been fought over what is called the"HOly" land.Which makes me wonder how a land or a building could be holier than people,it was taken over by the Romans,then Muslims, then Christians ,then Muslims again after various wars. Indeed ,no one would take in the Jewish refugees during the 40’s and the Palestineians agreed to take them in.They were given a state in 1948 and many Jewish people migrated back. There were people who didn’t want the Jewish people there and the Jewish people had to fight again to live in their state. A good part of the OT was Getting to the promised land. Israel was considered the homeland of the Jewish people though many had to leave because of persecution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-soldiers-killing-afghani-civilians/615493.md?page=8)