# US support of Israel (from Hamas war discussion thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [December 18, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-support-of-israel-from-hamas-war-discussion-thread/994802 "2023-12-18T20:35:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-support-of-israel-from-hamas-war-discussion-thread/994802/161 "2024-03-19T03:15:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Arabs working for the UN participated in murdering, raping and abducting Israelis. …cite please. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-support-of-israel-from-hamas-war-discussion-thread/994802/162 "2024-03-19T08:28:39Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > The reason I ask is because of a deal Canada made back in the day with the Saudis. Canada had an agreement to sell them some APCs. The Canadian government changed hands and it dawned on the new government that the Saudis were eager to do some dissident-squashing with their new Canadian wheels. But the Saudis had set the deal up in such a way that cancelling out of it would be more costly than just giving them what they were promised. Canada ended up sticking to the deal and just released a report saying basically “we can’t prove they squashed any dissidents (because we didn’t look all that closely and they may have backed over them a few times to grind them into a fine paste which when mixed with desert sand is basically indistinguishable from mud) so I guess it all worked out in the end”. The media found other things to outrage about and everyone forgot that it ever happened. > > So bearing that in mind, does Israel have similar deals with the US? The overwhelming majority of US military aid to Israel (and Egypt) aren’t direct sales. When Sadat kicked out the Soviet advisors, cut off Egypt from the Soviet Union, made peace with and recognized Israel in exchange for the return of the Sinai Peninsula with the Camp David Accords, Egypt was left with a lot of Soviet hardware they no longer had any source of replacements or spare parts for. One of the carrots to get Egypt to be drawn into the US sphere of influence and feel its security needs were being met after making peace with Israel was the US agreement to provide [Foreign Military Financing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Military_Financing) of about $3 billion per annum. To get Israel to feel that aid to Egypt wasn’t a threat to it, the US extended another about $3 billion in FMF per annum to Israel. Israel doesn’t “need” the aid for a given definition of “need,” they survived just fine without it prior to Camp David and have a very robust domestic military industrial sector capable of making everything from small arms to tanks to advanced guided missiles of all kinds. They even ventured into making their own jet combat aircraft based on the French Mirage at one point. To head off any misunderstanding of Foreign Military Financing, either scroll back in this thread to posts I made around December 19th, or to cover it briefly, FMF is basically the US government giving foreign governments a credit card with which to buy products and services from the US defense sector. The US isn’t giving them billions in aid to do whatever they want with. The US government is paying US defense contractors to provide them with approved military products and services. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-support-of-israel-from-hamas-war-discussion-thread/994802/163 "2024-03-19T15:46:14Z")
Replying to BB’s request for a cite, I assume Rat\* is talking about [this.](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/16/middleeast/israel-allegations-unrwa-october-7-intl/index.html). The UNRWA is the main body responsible for distributing humanitarian aid within Palestine, and until recently had about 13,000 employees in Palestine, 12 of whom, yes, 12, as in \>.01% of them, were accused by Israel of participating in the 10/7 attacks, although AFAIK Israel has only produced actual evidence against two of them. Based on this unmistakable evidence that the agency is completely controlled by terrorists, Israel demanded that its allies stop funding UNRWA, and most of them did, although most of them other than the US have since reconsidered. This decision to prevent humanitarian aid from getting through to civilians was, of course, based on Israel’s legitimate need for self-defense against terrorism, and did not in any way constitute a cynically racist attempt to use mass starvation as a method of collective punishment, in flagrant violation of international law. \*No offense is intended here, it’s just that his avatar is cooler, and easier to type, than his username. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-support-of-israel-from-hamas-war-discussion-thread/994802/164 "2024-03-19T17:07:09Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > \*No offense is intended here, it’s just that his avatar is cooler, and easier to type, than his username. Thank you, Sir. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-support-of-israel-from-hamas-war-discussion-thread/994802/165 "2024-03-19T21:47:50Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > although AFAIK Israel has only produced actual evidence against two of them. …they actually haven’t (as of yet) provided actual evidence for any of them. > **[Israel yet to provide evidence to back UNRWA 7 October attack claims – UN](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/01/unrwa-funding-pause-employees-october-7-hamas-attack-claims-no-evidence-un)** > > Allegations against 12 employees led major donors to suspend funding to UN Palestinian agency despite hunger crisis in Gaza The original statement is unsupported by the evidence. And it just shows how far US’s support of Israel goes. A mere allegation, unsupported by any evidence, was enough for the US to suspend funding. But allegations that Israel tortured UNRWA staffers? > [@](#): > > The report details the extensive use of torture against Palestinians taken prisoner by the Israeli military in Gaza, including 21 UNRWA staff members and 15 family members of UNRWA staff, an accusation Israel has denied. > **[Not just the UNRWA report: Countless accounts of Israeli torture in Gaza](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/13/after-the-unrwa-report-more-accounts-of-israels-torture-in-gaza)** > > Al Jazeera spoke to several released detainees about their ordeals in Israeli holding facilities. Not enough to even raise an eyebrow in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-support-of-israel-from-hamas-war-discussion-thread/994802/166 "2024-03-20T01:31:42Z")
I don’t trust Al Jazeera any more than I trust Israeli news sources. It doesn’t mean that .01% are working with Hamas, it means that .01% have been caught, or rather, [accused.](https://nypost.com/2024/02/17/world-news/unrwa-worker-caught-on-video-carrying-israeli-soliders-body-on-oct-7-report/) They may not have been working for Hamas; they may have thought it was a great chance to murder Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-support-of-israel-from-hamas-war-discussion-thread/994802/167 "2024-03-20T01:59:38Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t trust Al Jazeera any more than I trust Israeli news sources. …you don’t have to trust Al Jazeera. They are citing the UNRWA report, dated Feb 29th, originally reviewed by Reuters. As for allegations of torture? > **[Israel/OPT: Horrifying cases of torture and degrading treatment of...](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/)** > > Israeli authorities have dramatically increased their use of administrative detention, a form of arbitrary detention, of Palestinians across the occupied West Bank; extended emergency measures that facilitate inhuman and degrading treatment... > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > t doesn’t mean that .01% are working with Hamas, it means that .01% have been caught, or rather, [accused.](https://nypost.com/2024/02/17/world-news/unrwa-worker-caught-on-video-carrying-israeli-soliders-body-on-oct-7-report/) “I don’t trust Al Jazeera, but here’s my cite to the New York Post” LOL. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They may not have been working for Hamas The claim was that “Arabs working for the UN participated in murdering, raping and abducting Israelis.” That’s an inflammatory accusation that, considering the stakes, one would hope would have more evidence behind it than a New York Post article. Imagine America defunding an agency over that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-support-of-israel-from-hamas-war-discussion-thread/994802.md?page=8)