# US. The freest country in the world. Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 15, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763 "2010-11-15T19:15:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/1 "2010-11-15T19:15:34Z")
I’m Canadian I hear it all the time. America is the freest country in the world. From Americans. Who also bitch and complain endlessly about threats to their freedom or compromization thereof. Don’t you see a contradiction here? You don’t hear anyone brag about freedom in Canada or Europe. You don’t hear anyone complain about threats to their freedom or compromisation thereof in Canada or Europe. Well rarely. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/2 "2010-11-15T19:33:37Z")
[According to one survey](http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking.aspx), the U.S. is the 8th freest country – Hong Kong comes first (which is not all that surprising), Singapore 2nd (which might change if you added political freedom), and Australia is 3rd. And, I might add, you don’t often hear people from those places bragging that they come from the "freest country’. ---
**Author:** ![VernWinterbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c67d28/32.png) [@VernWinterbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VernWinterbottom)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/3 "2010-11-15T19:59:24Z")
There’s no contradiction if you think of the fact that there are more than one person living in America. More than one person can have different opinions the same subject. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/4 "2010-11-15T19:59:40Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > [According to one survey](http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking.aspx), the U.S. is the 8th freest country – Hong Kong comes first (which is not all that surprising), Singapore 2nd (which might change if you added political freedom), and Australia is 3rd. > > And, I might add, you don’t often hear people from those places bragging that they come from the "freest country’. That’s a survey of “Economic Freedom”. Freedom is a hell of lot more than what you do with your money. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/5 "2010-11-15T20:05:18Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > [According to one survey](http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking.aspx), the U.S. is the 8th freest country – Hong Kong comes first (which is not all that surprising), Singapore 2nd (which might change if you added political freedom), and Australia is 3rd. I’m curious as to why you think Hong Kong coming first is “not all that surprising.” I knew someone who used to work extensively with the Hong Kong government, and she was quite adamant that HK was not as free as the outside world liked to think. And that was before the UK returned Hong Kong to China…I understand that things have not improved since. In other words, Hong Kong would not be my obvious first choice…if you’d think Singapore’s ranking would change dramatically if one included political freedom I’d think Hong Kong would be in the same boat. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/6 "2010-11-15T20:07:43Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > That’s a survey of “Economic Freedom”. Freedom is a hell of lot more than what you do with your money. Even economic freedom has to do with more than “what you with your money”. But it was the first recent survey comparing freedom in various countries that I found. Now, on the political freedom scale, Hong Kong and Singapore don’t go all that well. However, the 3rd through 7th countries on the list are at least as politically free as the U.S.: Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland and Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/7 "2010-11-15T20:08:42Z")
I was interested to see that Canada is #7 on that list (and the US #8) - turns out that my favourite saying, a little socialism goes a long way, is indeed correct. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/8 "2010-11-15T20:09:16Z")
Switzerland’s not. Nor is Ireland, for that matter. In many ways, it’s one of the least politically free countries in the West. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/9 "2010-11-15T20:29:21Z")
Well, citing America’s freedoms is mandatory, along with “God bless America”. One of those societal paradigms like Australian “heart and values” being derived from the bush in a very highly urbanised society where 96% live within 30 minutes of the beach. An example would be the preference for the attributed Benjamin Franklin quotation: > [@](#): > > “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” … over the (likely) original, and subtly more pragmatic: > [@](#): > > They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/10 "2010-11-15T20:37:18Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’m Canadian > > I hear it all the time. America is the freest country in the world. > > From Americans. > > Who also bitch and complain endlessly about threats to their freedom or compromization thereof. > > Don’t you see a contradiction here? > You don’t hear anyone brag about freedom in Canada or Europe. > > You don’t hear anyone complain about threats to their freedom or compromisation thereof in Canada or Europe. > > Well rarely. I’ll grant that Canadians and Europeans rarely brag about their freedoms. What Canadians and Europeans do brag about is how much smarter, more sophisticated, more physically fit, and more tolerant they are than Americans. Oh, and how they would never stoop to bragging. All the friggin’ time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/11 "2010-11-15T20:55:09Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I’ll grant that Canadians and Europeans rarely brag about their freedoms. > > What Canadians and Europeans do brag about is how much smarter, more sophisticated, more physically fit, and more tolerant they are than Americans. Oh, and how they would never stoop to bragging. > > All the friggin’ time. I’ll grant you that too, though I might suggest that that attiude is more prevalent in “higher” Canadian society and somewhat more subtle. Regarding physical fitness, Americans must be somewhat amused by our attitude given the size of some well American known Canadian personalities such as John Candy, William Shatner and Dan Ackroyd. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/12 "2010-11-15T21:41:30Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’ll grant you that too, though I might suggest that that attiude is more prevalent in “higher” Canadian society and somewhat more subtle. > > Regarding physical fitness, Americans must be somewhat amused by our attitude given the size of some well American known Canadian personalities such as John Candy, William Shatner and Dan Ackroyd. Speaking of Shatner, his just-a-little-too-much-weight issues go back to the early Star Trek days. There are one or two scenes where the characters are seen from behind stepping up to the transporter platform, and you can see where the wardrobe department had to do a quick repair, probably with some sort of iron-on adhesive patch, because Captain Kirk’s uniform trousers had split at the back of the waistband. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/13 "2010-11-15T21:54:40Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Even economic freedom has to do with more than “what you with your money”. But it was the first recent survey comparing freedom in various countries that I found. Now, on the political freedom scale, Hong Kong and Singapore don’t go all that well. However, the 3rd through 7th countries on the list are at least as politically free as the U.S.: Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland and Canada. In Ireland, abortion is banned, and divorce was only made legal in the 1990s. So it really depends on how you define freedom, both politically and economically. There’s no simple way to rank countries, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/14 "2010-11-15T22:06:18Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > So it really depends on how you define freedom, both politically and economically. There’s no simple way to rank countries, in my opinion. Agreed. I think where America is superlative is in the degree to which **Freedom** is part of our national mythos and sense of identity. When we think of America, we think of “The land of the free,” “Let freedom ring,” the Liberty Bell, the Bill of Rights, “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,” the leader of the free world, “huddled masses yearning to breathe free,” and all the people who came to these shores seeking (religious, political, or economic) freedom. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/15 "2010-11-15T22:23:15Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > I’m curious as to why you think Hong Kong coming first is “not all that surprising.” I knew someone who used to work extensively with the Hong Kong government, and she was quite adamant that HK was not as free as the outside world liked to think. And that was before the UK returned Hong Kong to China…I understand that things have not improved since. > > In other words, Hong Kong would not be my obvious first choice…if you’d think Singapore’s ranking would change dramatically if one included political freedom I’d think Hong Kong would be in the same boat. When I worked for UBS and Lehman Brothers in Hong Kong, we used to laugh our asses off every year when HK (and Singapore) came out as leaders. There’s an unholy alliance between the government and property developers, the property market is carefully managed to benefit the big 4 developers, cartels manage the grocery and retail market, ad nauseum. The survey has some very selective criteria. The HK meme is oft repeated and rarely examined. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/16 "2010-11-16T00:18:51Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Speaking of Shatner, his just-a-little-too-much-weight issues go back to the early Star Trek days. There are one or two scenes where the characters are seen from behind stepping up to the transporter platform, and you can see where the wardrobe department had to do a quick repair, probably with some sort of iron-on adhesive patch, because Captain Kirk’s uniform trousers had split at the back of the waistband. The uniforms were made of some stuff that shrank all too readily when laundered (as they frequently had to be). But, as CE Joad used to say “It all depends what you mean by …” freedom. The freedom to starve isn’t much of a freedom. Any beggar in the street’s got that. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/17 "2010-11-16T01:51:05Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I hear it all the time. America is the freest country in the world. The reason this idea is important to Americans may have something to do with our history. > [@](#): > > Who also bitch and complain endlessly about threats to their freedom or compromization thereof. I don’t see why not being complacent about losing freedoms is contradictory to the fact that, currently, the US is doing better that way than a lot of other countries. I am grateful for the fact that in America I can call the king of Thailand a cowardly little pussy (something the people of Thailand can’t do, for example). Still, I believe that nowadays there _are_ too many weak, cowardly people out there who would gladly trade their freedoms for some temporary security, and so I will complain about it when I see things that seem to make that a risk. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/18 "2010-11-16T05:32:15Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > The reason this idea is important to Americans may have something to do with our history. No, it’s got something to do with the way your history is taught. Pretty much every nation had to fight its way out from under the thumb of some despot or another at some point. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/19 "2010-11-16T09:36:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, it’s got something to do with the way your history is taught. That’s a very astute observation. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/20 "2010-11-16T12:07:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, it’s got something to do with the way your history is taught. Pretty much every nation had to fight its way out from under the thumb of some despot or another at some point. I agree with your point on education, but not your example. If you took the top 10 from the cite provided by **Giles** i.e. Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland, Canada, USA, Denmark & Chile, you couldn’t say there is a common history of overthrowing despots. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763.md?page=2)