# US. The freest country in the world. Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 15, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763 "2010-11-15T19:15:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/81 "2010-11-17T12:18:42Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > _Ireland_ and _Chile_ don’t have strong independence-from-despots narratives? Are you kidding? Certainly not, my point was that it’s not a common theme of those countries in the top 10 as per the cite from **Giles** , indeed its arguable that description applies only to 3 of them If there was a “strong independence-from-despots” movement in Australia or New Zealand (and Switzerland, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong or Denmark) then I reckon I’m old enough to have heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/82 "2010-11-17T14:17:23Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > If there was a “strong independence-from-despots” movement in Australia or New Zealand (and Switzerland, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong or Denmark) then I reckon I’m old enough to have heard of it. Are you 150? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/83 "2010-11-17T21:42:07Z")
I said “heard of”, not “participated in”. Which, in conjunction with your statement in post #22 “Pretty sure all of those countries except Switzerland and Canada have had to struggle a bit for self-determination.” makes me better informed, though not necessarily older, than you. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/84 "2010-11-17T23:18:14Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > Wouldn’t the freest country be someplace like Somalia, where there is for all intents and purposes no law at all? You can do pretty much anything you want there. This. “Freedom” is another word for “nothing left to lose”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/85 "2010-11-18T00:23:16Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > I said “heard of”, not “participated in”. > > Which, in conjunction with your statement in post #22 “Pretty sure all of those countries except Switzerland and Canada have had to struggle a bit for self-determination.” makes me better informed, though not necessarily older, than you. I’m sorry, but this post makes no sense at all. Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![thewumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbce88/32.png) [@thewumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thewumpus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/86 "2010-12-24T15:18:10Z")
It depends on the particular issue. Check out the freedom meta-index at [Freedom Index : Find Freedom!](http://www.freeexistence.org/freedom.shtml) which lets you pick which issues you care about (e.g., taxes, limited government, RKBA, liberal drug laws, etc.) and then produces a weighted ranking of all the countries based on what’s most important to you. It pulls in several different prominent freedom indices for data, so it’s got not only economic freedom but individual liberties. But as you can see, the US isn’t #1 anywhere, and in some cases, it’s actually in the bottom half of the list. ---
**Author:** ![Daerlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Daerlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daerlyn)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/87 "2010-12-24T17:11:16Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > I said “heard of”, not “participated in”. > > Which, in conjunction with your statement in post #22 “Pretty sure all of those countries except Switzerland and Canada have had to struggle a bit for self-determination.” makes me better informed, though not necessarily older, than you. Canada certainly has struggled for self-determination. Just because the struggle was largely cultural, and happened in courtrooms and with a minimum of people blowing things up, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/88 "2010-12-24T17:22:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Switzerland’s not. **Nor is Ireland, for that matter. In many ways, it’s one of the least politically free countries in the West**. Elaborate please? I’m not saying you are wrong, I just want to know what exactly you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/89 "2010-12-24T18:18:42Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > Elaborate please? > > I’m not saying you are wrong, I just want to know what exactly you mean. I assume that RNATB is referring to the Troubles. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/90 "2010-12-24T20:42:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I assume that RNATB is referring to the Troubles. Well then, he should have referred to Northern Ireland, not Ireland. This reminds me of Sarah Palin referring to North Korea as our ally. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/91 "2010-12-24T21:52:20Z")
Define the word “free”. For people who think America is the most free country, that definition will be different from those who think that Hong Kong (I thought it was just a region of the People’s Republic, not it’s own country?) is the most free. Laws I’ve heard of from other countries would make me feel VERY oppressed. ---
**Author:** ![AlmostPerfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/74df32/32.png) [@AlmostPerfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlmostPerfect)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/92 "2010-12-25T00:44:42Z")
I wouldn’t consider any country to be free (except Somalia, of course) because there are always laws restricting what you can do, what you can say and what you can write. As a recent high school graduate I can tell you that I went through 12 years of schooling where I was not free to do anything. Remember that freedom is freedom, it isn’t freedom with a bunch of IFs after it. For example, freedom if you’re over 18 (or 21). Freedom if you’re part of the majority. Freedom if you can afford it etc. Those are all limitations that are found in pretty much every country that we consider free. Its more like “we’ll take away your freedoms for your protection. Go against us and you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law”. That’s not freedom, not even close. But this isn’t a conversation of are countries “free” its a conversation of who’s the “most free”. Which is an impossible question in itself like most people said because of the variations of laws and expectations. But tbh, its like a bunch of ugly people asking each other who’s the prettiest… Doesn’t matter in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/93 "2010-12-25T01:50:50Z")
> [@AlmostPerfect](#): > > I wouldn’t consider any country to be free (except Somalia, of course) because there are always laws restricting what you can do, what you can say and what you can write. As a recent high school graduate I can tell you that I went through 12 years of schooling where I was not free to do anything. That’s not true at all; you were free to do many things in school. You were also bound by rules because you weren’t alone there or in society. > [@](#): > > Remember that freedom is freedom, it isn’t freedom with a bunch of IFs after it. For example, freedom if you’re over 18 (or 21). Freedom if you’re part of the majority. Freedom if you can afford it etc. Those are all limitations that are found in pretty much every country that we consider free. Its more like “we’ll take away your freedoms for your protection. Go against us and you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law”. That’s not freedom, not even close.\ You’re partially onto something there. Most of us trade in a lot of our freedoms for the freedom to not starve or freeze to death. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AlmostPerfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/74df32/32.png) [@AlmostPerfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlmostPerfect)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/94 "2010-12-25T02:57:10Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That’s not true at all; you were free to do many things in school. You were also bound by rules because you weren’t alone there or in society. No its very true, I do not know if my public school experience matches yours or anyone else’s here but being free in the true definition of the word was extremely absent. I’ll make a list. I wasn’t free to attend classes at will, because I or my parents would get in trouble with truancy laws. I was not free to get up and use the restroom at will, or I could be suspended under the rule of insubordination. I did not have the first amendment freedom of speech, simply because I was in a public school system that I really had no choice to be in. I was not able to decide when I could eat, for the teachers could control when students go to lunch or eat in class. I didn’t have the freedom to wear what I liked. If I dyed my hair orange I would be removed from class for disturbing other students. I remember once a friend of mine had her state mandated standardized test invalidated because she was reading a book after she finished. Ask how free the students at Columbine were to use their cell phones. The worst part is that I was forced to sign a paper to agree to every one of these “rules” at the beginning of every school year. If I didn’t I would be promptly removed to class and they would call my parents in order to discuss how I’m being a nuisance to other students trying to learn. Trust me, I tried. Maybe you and I have a different idea of freedom, but the only time I have truly been free to do whatever I want is when I was a toddler and my parents had to deal with the consequences of my actions. But now toddler’s aren’t even free, they can be sued too. Freedom shouldn’t be conditional, especially if it doesn’t infringe on somebody else’s freedoms. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/95 "2010-12-25T05:20:09Z")
> [@thewumpus](#): > > It depends on the particular issue. Check out the freedom meta-index at [Freedom Index : Find Freedom!](http://www.freeexistence.org/freedom.shtml) which lets you pick which issues you care about (e.g., taxes, limited government, RKBA, liberal drug laws, etc.) and then produces a weighted ranking of all the countries based on what’s most important to you. It pulls in several different prominent freedom indices for data, so it’s got not only economic freedom but individual liberties. But as you can see, the US isn’t #1 anywhere, and in some cases, it’s actually in the bottom half of the list. Love it. By Gunownership rights > [@](#): > > Rank Nation Overall Guns > 1 Yemen 90 90 > 2 United States 80 80 > 3 Bolivia 70 70 > 4 Czech Republic 70 70 > 5 Lithuania 70 70 > 6 Panama 65 65 > 7 Saudi Arabia 65 65 > 8 Switzerland 65 65 > 9 Estonia 60 60 > 10 Pakistan 60 60 So the members of the NRA should be doing a Chandler Bing right about now. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/96 "2010-12-25T05:26:41Z")
By Taxes > [@](#): > > 1 Bahrain 100 100 > 2 Kuwait 100 100 > 3 Qatar 100 100 > 4 Saudi Arabia 100 100 > 5 United Arab Emir. 100 100 > 6 Micronesia 98 98 > 7 Oman 98 98 > 8 Paraguay 97 97 > 9 Maldives 96 96 > 10 Bahamas 95 95 Gotta Love Bahrain. Business Freedom > [@](#): > > Rank Nation Overall Business > 1 New Zealand 100 100 > 2 Hong Kong 99 99 > 3 Denmark 98 98 > 4 Singapore 98 98 > 5 Canada 96 96 > 6 Sweden 96 96 > 7 Finland 95 95 > 8 United Kingdom 95 95 > 9 Belgium 93 93 > 10 Iceland 93 93 Go Kiwi Go Kiwi. And look Socialist Europe is right up there. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/97 "2010-12-25T05:36:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh, and here in Washington, DC, I believe the law still prohibits someone sitting on the front steps of a house that they own and enjoying an adult beverage. Yeah, that’s freedom for you. This seems almost impossible for me to believe. Do I understand this correctly—You are not legally allowed to drink alcohol on your own front porch or patio? Any DC Dopers have the details on such a draconian law? (Even here in uber-conservative Utah, where the wierdo liquor laws are internationally infamous, this would never fly. After all, it’s your own private property.) ---
**Author:** ![barndoor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e5b9ba/32.png) [@barndoor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barndoor)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/98 "2010-12-25T06:16:13Z")
Political freedom? So what? If “political freedom” means you can work as a public servant if you want, usually, no way. You may have political freedom, but you have no power, nor could you get the power to hear you. There are ways to get involved in the politics: 1. Become a public servant or member of congress (or something like that): You need much money to buy a political party. 2. Control the press so people would listen to you: No way if you’re nobody. 3. Start a grass-roots campaign: Chances are your non-profit will remain non-profit and your personal crusade will remain as personal as it could be. 4. Bitching: You can bitch your politicians without fear. No one hears you anyway. Nothing is going to change anyway. You still have 24 hours a day for you to bitch. 5. Vote: This is what you only have. You vote. So how good is a car if the car does not take you anywhere? How much would you pay if you only get a car that takes you to **anywhere INSIDE YOUR BACKYARD**? How much “political freedom” do you really have. ---
**Author:** ![barndoor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e5b9ba/32.png) [@barndoor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barndoor)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/99 "2010-12-25T06:27:48Z")
“Religious freedom”? What? Can you call practicing the belief that a supernatural entity has overall control over you a freedom? I must have this freedom so I can’t eat pork. I must have this freedom so I can’t eat meat. I must have this freedom so I can’t abort even if I was raped by a bad guy with some sex diseases. Sometimes religions may be about love. Most of the times, they are nothing but another authority that sends people to kill each other and then fishes your pockets for money. You can bitch your government. Can you bit the god or his designated servant on earth? Then what is freedom? ---
**Author:** ![barndoor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e5b9ba/32.png) [@barndoor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barndoor)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763/100 "2010-12-25T06:31:46Z")
“Economics freedom”? Spare me. When was the last time you see a local mom-and-pop grocery story opened in your neighborhood? All you have is the freedom to work part-time for the world’s largest chain for some minimum wages if you are … well … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-freest-country-in-the-world-really/560763.md?page=6)