# US - the Jones Act and similar **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 12, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695 "2024-10-12T21:30:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/1 "2024-10-12T21:30:02Z")
The century±old Jones Act restricts (cargo) ships sailing between US ports to be US-built, owned, and crewed. This leads to much higher prices in states/territories such as Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and Guam. It supposedly protects jobs in the maritime industry The Passengers Services Act (even older) prohibits foreign-flagged (passenger) ships from sailing between two US ports without a stop at a foreign port. That’s why your cruise ship will often make a Canadian stop (usually in Victoria or Vancouver) if you are taking an Alaskan cruise out of Seattle. And why you will almost never see cruises between the US west coast and Hawaii. (there is one US-flagged cruise ship that serves Hawaii). And US-to-US cruises via the Panama Canal will often make a stop in Colombia. Here’s one link: [What is the Jones Act and how does it impact cruise ships? - The Points Guy](https://thepointsguy.com/cruise/what-is-the-jones-act-for-cruise-ships/) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/2 "2024-10-12T22:27:32Z")
Ummm…I hate to ask, but what’s the point of your thread, @Mark_Finn? Are you asking for additional examples of such laws? The end of your title (“…and similar”) seems to suggest that, but your OP doesn’t actually ask that – it just talks about two laws. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/3 "2024-10-12T23:14:19Z")
There are cruises between the West Coast and Hawaii. They make a stop in Ensenada, Mexico on the way back. I know, because I went on one a few years ago. As for cruises through the Panama Canal, they usually make a LOT of stops in foreign ports. The one I went on stopped in Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama, and Colombia. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2024, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/4 "2024-10-12T23:21:00Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Ummm…I hate to ask, but what’s the point of your thread, @Mark_Finn? Stuff he must share? I learned something new. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/5 "2024-10-13T00:08:36Z")
It sure would have been right at home under the old name. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/6 "2024-10-13T00:23:50Z")
I’m not sure what the question/comment here is, but coincedentally (unless OP also saw this), I watched a Half As Interesting/Wendover Productions video on this very topic a few days ago. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JrO_tvMjqjo/maxresdefault.jpg "Hawaii's Logistics Problem") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrO_tvMjqjo) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/7 "2024-10-13T00:51:51Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > The Passengers Services Act (even older) prohibits foreign-flagged (passenger) ships from sailing between two US ports without a stop at a foreign port. Just to clarify, as long as the cruise itinerary includes at least one foreign port, the ship can make stops at consecutive US ports. A typical New England/ Canada itinerary is New York Boston Newport RI Bar Harbor ME Halifax (Canada) St Johns (Canada) So the ship can legally sail from NY to Boston as long as they make a stop in Canada later in the week. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/8 "2024-10-13T00:54:36Z")
There are similar laws and treaties that affect air transport of both passengers (e.g. ordinary airlines) and cargo (eg. FedEx, UPS, etc.). You can’t fly e.g. British Airways from Los Angeles to New York. Ba might have a jet that flies from here to there, but they can’t sell you a ticket on it. You could buy that segment as part of a journey that began or ended in a different country though. Further, lots of the airline alliances are about sorta end-running these restrictions. Among several other commercial motivations. If e.g. American and British get together as a “code share”, then AA can fly an AA jet with AA employees from LA to NYC labeling it AA flight 123 and also labeling it BA flight 5123. So BA can sell tickets as if they’re the ones carrying people from LA to NYC. But they’re not. Meanwhile BA can sell tickets from London to Glasgow as BA flight 456 using a BA jet and BA employees while American sells ticket on the same BA plane as AA flight 6456. Easy peasy, right? Here’s a decent place to start reading: > **[Cabotage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabotage)** > > Cabotage (/ˈkæbətɪdʒ, -tɑːʒ/) is the transport of goods or passengers between two places in the same country. The term originally applied to shipping along coastal routes, port to port, but now applies to aviation, railways, and road transport as well. > Cabotage rights are the right of a company from one country to trade in another country. In aviation, it is the right to operate within the domestic borders of another country, particularly to carry passengers and cargo from one point in the other... and > **[Freedoms of the air](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air)** > > The freedoms of the air, also called five freedoms of air transport, are a set of commercial aviation rights granting a country's airlines the privilege to enter and land in another country's airspace. They were formulated as a result of disagreements over the extent of aviation liberalisation in the Convention on International Civil Aviation of 1944, known as the Chicago Convention. The United States had called for a standardized set of separate air rights to be negotiated between states, but ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/9 "2024-10-13T01:26:42Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m not sure what the question/comment here is, but coincedentally (unless OP also saw this), I watched a Half As Interesting/Wendover Productions video on this very topic a few days ago. One of the ships shown in the video is owned by a client of mine. It’s a very interesting business. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/10 "2024-10-13T11:45:42Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m not sure what the question/comment here is, but coincedentally (unless OP also saw this), I watched a Half As Interesting/Wendover Productions video on this very topic a few days ago. > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrO\_tvMjqjo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrO_tvMjqjo) Being the OP - that was the video that caused me to start this thread, You learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/11 "2024-10-13T13:47:31Z")
The _interesting facts_ thread could have been good for this info but there’s a lot to consider for this particular subject and I can see a lot more revealed by the experience and knowledge of others so IMO it’s worthy of a thread that can be searched and might be useful for Dopers to come back to over time. @LSLGuy has provided some excellent background information already. I don’t plan on taking any cruises soon, or ever, but still interesting to find out about. No reason to discourage threads of this sort. All I have to say in the subject, don’t want to start a meta-hijack. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/12 "2024-10-13T14:10:43Z")
I remember learning about the Jones act through NPR’s Planet Money. New Jersey needed some road salt from Maine and instead of using one big (Greek) ship parked nearby, they had to ship it using a bunch of return trips with a small (American) barge. > **[Episode 524: Me and Mr. Jones](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/289116345)** > > There's an obscure law that governs just about anything that travels by ship in the US - bananas, hairdryers, gasoline, even people. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-the-jones-act-and-similar/1008695/13 "2024-10-13T21:19:12Z")
I can’t defend the law, but the stated purpose is national security-without this law there would be no US merchant mariners. This is assumed to be a bad thing for the country if we need to ship defense items overseas. One could argue that there are so few US flagged ships now that the country has to use foreign flagged and crewed ships already, but without the Jones act the country would be completely dependent on foreign flags and crews. US crews are not competitive in the global shipping industry. Kind of like US shipbuilding-we can’t build enough warships to keep up with retirements. To the point that the Navy is visiting South Korean shipbuilders to find out whether they would build warships for the US Navy. Whether congress would fund such work is a bridge to be crossed in the future.