# US troops are fucking up the ruins of ancient Babylon **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2005, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010 "2005-01-16T08:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/1 "2005-01-16T08:48:46Z")
US troops set up camp in the ancient city of Babylon and have proceeded to [shit all over it.](http://www.boston.com/dailynews/015/world/British_Museum_says_U_S_led_tr:.shtml) > [@](#): > > U.S.-led troops using the ancient Iraqi city of Babylon as a base have damaged and contaminated artifacts dating back thousands of years in one of the world’s most important archaeological sites, the British Museum said Saturday. > > For example, military vehicles crushed a 2,600-year-old brick pavement, and archaeological fragments, including broken bricks stamped by King Nebuchadnezzar II around the same time, were scattered across the site, a museum report said. > > The dragons at the Ishtar Gate were marred by cracks and gaps where someone tried to remove their decorative bricks, the paper said. > > John Curtis, keeper of the British Museum’s Near East department, who was invited by the Iraqis to study the site, also found that large quantities of sand mixed with archaeological fragments have been taken from the site to fill military sandbags. > > ‘‘This is tantamount to establishing a military camp around the Great Pyramid in Egypt or around Stonehenge in Britain,’’ Curtis said in the report. The fuckers are also paving over large areas to make parking lots and helipads for their fucking genocide equipment. :mad: This really pisses me off. Iraq’s cultural and archaeological heritage is priceless. The fact that a bunch of ignorant fucking asshole GIs are allowed to deface the fucking Ishtar Gate for souveneirs bugs the living shit out of me. I know GWB is ignorant and uneducated about ancient history. I know he probably thinks that Babylon was “evil” because his Bible tells him so. I know that the neocons don’t give a shit about culture or history and have no feelings at all about protecting precious artifacts. We know they let the museums get looted while they protected their oil. I know they’re fucking scum and I shouldn’t be surprised that they would feel perfectly entitled to set up camp in one of the most historically significant archaeological sites in history and treat it like a vacant lot in Jersey. But reading about it today just burns my ass anyway. I would at least hope that they could recognize the _economic_ value of Iraq’s historical heritage as it pertains to tourism. Babylon could be a tourist bonanza for Iraq down the line. But since the neocons don’t stand to make any money from the site, I guess they can’t be expected to give a shit. Just one more atrocity committed in a long series of atrocities. ☹ Whoever stole the bricks from the Ishtar Gate needs to spend the rest of his life in an Iraqi prison. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/2 "2005-01-16T08:55:11Z")
Genocide equipment? ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/3 "2005-01-16T09:21:44Z")
Well, though I try, I’m jaded to the that point I hardly give two shits anymore about all that other crap… but WHEN THEY START FUCKING WITH BOB MARLEY SONGS I GET MAD! [http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/bob\_marley/chant\_down\_babylon.html](http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/bob_marley/chant_down_babylon.html) :mad: :mad: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/4 "2005-01-16T09:50:42Z")
They’ve ruined the ruins? ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/5 "2005-01-16T09:56:01Z")
The people in charge seem to be perpetually trying to rewrite history, why does it seem such a surprise they’d just destroy it outright? ☹☹☹ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/6 "2005-01-16T10:02:03Z")
Dio, your article goes on to say: > [@](#): > > A Polish military spokesman in Iraq said troops were cooperating with Iraqi authorities in efforts to protect the site. > > ‘‘I have asked our archaeologists to prepare a specific answer to the accusations, but I have to give them some time,’’ Lt. Col. Artur Domanski said. > > The city’s main sites the Ishtar Gate, the ruins of Babylon and the Nebuchadnezzar Palace are in a separate area on the camp’s perimeter, run by Iraqi officials as an archaeological park to paying visitors. > > The U.S. military says all earth moving has been halted and it is considering moving troops away to protect the ruins. > > Lt. Col. Steven Boylan, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, said all engineering works were discussed with the head of the Babylon museum. > > ‘‘An archaeologist examined every construction initiative for its impact on historical ruins,’’ he said. > > In the report, Curtis acknowledged that at first the U.S. presence had helped to protect the site from looters. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/7 "2005-01-16T10:02:29Z")
Dude… ‘genocide equipment’ ? I’d like to get behind you on this rant as it makes the blood in my veins boil too, but… Genocide equipment? You’ve virtually Goodwinized your thread from the OP… ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/8 "2005-01-16T11:50:16Z")
Thank you **Liberal** for posting aspects of the issue so conveniently overlooked by the OP in his zeal to offer whine du jour. How CBesque of him. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/9 "2005-01-16T13:22:47Z")
Hi. I was stationed at Babylon from May of this year till December. I’m currently in Baghdad. Most of the damage was done by Saddam; he reconstructed the ruins to make himself look glorious. I believe the real Ishtar Gate is at the Berlin Museum; most of the ruins were bricked and blocked and spackled over in his efforts to make himself look like a modern-day whatever. No time for a longer reply, but the ruins were enclosed in brick and cement when we got there. Sad to say, I did encounter some troops picking through the ruins—but I turned in one of these people myself. It’s hard to do the subject justice but this is a bit one-sided. I’ve posted pictures of Babylon elsewhere and will supply the link if you email me. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/10 "2005-01-16T13:36:36Z")
And then I saw the term ‘genocide equipment’ and realized I was wasting my breath. Some of the pavements he’s bitching about had been there so long that trees, growing up through the ornamental little holes in the cement, had cracked and buckled. Also? Helipads and so forth are NOT paved over. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/11 "2005-01-16T15:02:38Z")
Margin, on behalf of those of us who are listening, and were pretty concerned anyhow, I’d like to hear. I’m pretty sure the things in sandbags are potsherds and so on, but… ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/12 "2005-01-16T15:06:32Z")
In most cases the statement “You hate America and should leave” is just overly patriotic annoying nationalism on the part of the speaker. It does, however, aptly apply to **Diogenes**. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/13 "2005-01-16T15:15:48Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Most of the damage was done by Saddam; he reconstructed the ruins to make himself look glorious. I believe the real Ishtar Gate is at the Berlin Museum; most of the ruins were bricked and blocked and spackled over in his efforts to make himself look like a modern-day whatever. > > No time for a longer reply, but the ruins were enclosed in brick and cement when we got there. Sad to say, I did encounter some troops picking through the ruins—but I turned in one of these people myself. It’s hard to do the subject justice but this is a bit one-sided. Could you please try to post more about this, if you have time? I’m interested, as the article **Dio** posted is worrisome to me, but what you’ve said here is more or less incoherent. The Ishtar Gate in Berlin is a reconstruction from original bricks excavated at Babylon. The Gate in Babylon was built about 50 years ago as a museum entrance. Regardless, there are still vast amounts of archaeological items of interest there, and it bothers me that our troops are in a position to damage them. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/14 "2005-01-16T16:02:58Z")
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednigo must be whirling in their graves. ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_from\_Texas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Lee\_from\_Texas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lee_from_Texas)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/15 "2005-01-16T16:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > … and it bothers me that our troops are in a position to damage them. That bothers me too. However, I have to take issue with the OP’s “genocide equipment” and his tone in general. First of all- not all soldiers who are there want to be there. They damn sure don’t want to wipe Iraq’s population off the face of the Earth. I’m a soldier in the National Guard. It may surprise the OP to learn that I think the war in Iraq was a dumb idea. It was totally unnecessary. Around 1400 of my brothers and sisters are dead and countless thousands of Iraqis. There’s no end in sight to it. I did NOT vote for the guy who started it all. Complaining about the sandbag issue…if you were there and wanted protection from insurgent rockets, bullets, mortars, etc, what would you do? They’re using what they’ve got. If sandbags have pieces of 3000 year old pots in them, so be it. Maybe those scraps of pots will help save a soldier’s life. Don’y say you’re above it. Don’t say you’d sacrifice your life to save some piece of shit pottery fragments. You wouldn’t. The soldiers are making the best of it and trying to get home in one piece. More power to them. There have been a few incidents of abuse/war crimes and those soldiers are facing justice. Rightfully so. I’ll tell you right now, if I had to tear down some ruins to build a stone wall, I’d do it in a heartbeat. NO archeological site is worth MY life. The situation sucks, but implying that all teh soldiers there are bloodthirsty war criminals is just dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/16 "2005-01-16T16:35:51Z")
Yes. Genocide equipment. Killing a 100,000 civilians for no motherfucking reason whatsoever is genocide. I don’t blame the soldiers. They’re part of the equipment. They’re doing what they’re told. I blame the civilian leadership. I think the soldiers are victims too. **margin** , thank you for turning in the looter. I would definitely be interested in seeing your pictures. **Lee from Texas**. Once again, I don’t blame the soldiers themselves (at least most of them) I blame the morons who put them there. **KidCharlemagne** , suck my pasty man tits. Everyone else, I know that Saddam rebuilt parts of Babylon and that the gate was a replica. Even so, there has been a lot of new damage there since the invasion and the site is still a hugely important one which deserves to be preserved. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/17 "2005-01-16T16:45:09Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Yes. Genocide equipment. Killing a 100,000 civilians for no motherfucking reason whatsoever is genocide. > > I don’t blame the soldiers. They’re part of the equipment. They’re doing what they’re told. I blame the civilian leadership. I think the soldiers are victims too. Wat a sec, how can soldiers be victims _and_ be perpetrators of genocide (a BS charge in itself)? I remember Reagan catching a world of shit when he said the same thing about the SS soldiers buried at Bitburg. You’ve been very harsh (and justifiably so) aobut the abuse at Abu Ghraib, and I doubt you shed a tear for poor Sgt. Graner’s 10-year prison sentence. So _if_ our soldiers are committing genocide (a very big and highly specious _if_), how can you call them victims, too? Jah knows I’m opposed to the handling of this war (and if our boys really are wrecking archaeological sites, there will be hell to pay), but _genocide_? Dude, seriously, amp up (or down) the dosage because you’re not making any sense. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/18 "2005-01-16T17:13:21Z")
I read that article, too. It made me so sad I couldn’t even think about it. I’m glad you posted a pit thread. Reminds me of the drunken soldiers who went to party down in the Baghdad zoo, and how a tiger ended up shot dead because one of the drunken assholes thought playing with a tiger would be fun. Because, you know, we have lots and lots of tigers left in the world. And who cares about Iraq’s history, anyway. What does it have to do with us Americans? (sarcasm) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/19 "2005-01-16T17:29:02Z")
Don’t worry, **Dio** , the whole thing’s going to be rebuilt, anyway. The Antichrist is going to rebuild Babylon and set up his One World Gummint there. I hope Gee Dubya enjoys the view from Nebuchadnezzar’s palace. ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/20 "2005-01-16T18:31:57Z")
> [@](#): > > U.S.-led troops using the ancient Iraqi city of Babylon as a base have damaged and contaminated artifacts dating back thousands of years in one of the world’s most important archaeological sites, the British Museum said Saturday. [Link to the British Museum report](http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/newsroom/current2005/Babylon_Report04.doc) (900kB Word .doc file) More info in the [Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/0,2759,423009,00.html) (under the heading “Cultural destruction”, January 15): [The wrecking of Babylon](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1391042,00.html) [Months of war that ruined centuries of history](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1391085,00.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010.md?page=2)