# US troops are fucking up the ruins of ancient Babylon **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 16, 2005, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010 "2005-01-16T08:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/61 "2005-01-18T01:17:29Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’m not saying walk on glass. After all, the conquering is over and the victor calls the shots. But the same thing applies in Iraq. If LaurAnge wants to cry over the desecration of a nonexistent Babylon, fine — then cry too over desecrations everywhere. Otherwise, shrug it all off. I thought she reacted like someone at a ball game who has just come back from the restroom and, upon hearing the crowd cheer or boo, begins to cheer or boo instinctively while looking around for what happened. ::buzzer sound:: wrong. t’aint up to you to tell some one else what they should be crying about, or how much. Atrocities have occured throughout human history, most cultures have had their share of committing them. Should I be prostrate w/grief over events that happened centuries ago, while ignoring events going on now? I think not. this arguement happens all the time - “don’t bother shedding tears over Andrea Yates, cry, instead for her children” as if some how being upset about one thing means you care naught for the other. “don’t dare feel badly about the Abu G. Prison stories lest you forget the beheadings being done by terrorists there”. and it’s bullshit each time. I have capacity to be uspet/happy/horrified etcc at any number of events. In addition, we may, as individuals, indeed **feel more** , care more for one similar event than another. I may say, politely “happy b’day” to a casual acquaintence, however, is nothing near the joy I feel when wishing happy b’day to my son. Same event, vastly different feelings. and it’s all my own perogative, thank you. I may indeed be horrified over how people who lived in the US circa 1500 - 1910 treated certain populations. My ancestors were elsewhere treating other folks badly, or well, or what have you. In any event, it does not mean that I’m not allowed to feel a different level of horror over something that is happening right now. (understanding that even now there are continuing attrocities happening here). We get to pick and choose our battles, **Lib**. Doesn’t mean that I’m heartless. Just means I get to pick my own priorities. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/62 "2005-01-24T07:27:42Z")
Sorry, just a bit of a digression----but I’m in the process of posting more photos of pictures of the ruin, including one of the reproduction Ishtar Gate. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/63 "2005-01-24T11:15:40Z")
> [@Wring](#): > > We get to pick and choose our battles, Lib. Doesn’t mean that I’m heartless. Just means I get to pick my own priorities. I’m glad someone bumped this thread because I missed your comment before. And you’re right. You get to pick and choose. But I get to tell you that I think your choices are wrongheaded and contradictory. Sure, you can wail about the misfortunes of poor Blacks in the inner cities. But if you simultaneously ignore the dreadful plights of the equally unfortunate poor Whites in Appalachia, your standard is as tilted as the tower in Pisa. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/64 "2005-01-24T11:28:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But I get to tell you that I think your choices are wrongheaded and contradictory. Sure, you can wail about the misfortunes of poor Blacks in the inner cities. But if you simultaneously ignore the dreadful plights of the equally unfortunate poor Whites in Appalachia, your standard is as tilted as the tower in Pisa. Didn’t actually read **wring** ’s post: + 10 points Didn’t understand **wring** ’s post: + 20 points Continued whining about the same shit, and blamed **wring** for it: +50 points. You shore is winnin’ this game, **Lib**. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/65 "2005-01-24T11:36:32Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Didn’t actually read **wring** ’s post: + 10 points > Didn’t understand **wring** ’s post: + 20 points > Continued whining about the same shit, and blamed **wring** for it: +50 points. > > You shore is winnin’ this game, **Lib**. Dude, stop with your **Liberal** fetish. At least in public. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/66 "2005-01-24T11:48:44Z")
Value of **Brutus** ’s input: priceless. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/67 "2005-01-24T12:38:26Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Sorry, just a bit of a digression----but I’m in the process of posting more photos of pictures of the ruin, including one of the reproduction Ishtar Gate. 😕 And the link is where? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/68 "2005-01-24T13:02:38Z")
“Why don’t you GUYS SHUTT UP!1!! THIS NEWGROUP IS FRO POSTING PORN BNARIES ONLY!!!1” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/69 "2005-01-24T13:04:09Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > “Why don’t you GUYS SHUTT UP!1!! THIS NEWGROUP IS FRO POSTING PORN BNARIES ONLY!!!1” Are you drunk? Or merely being yourself (excessively)? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/70 "2005-01-24T13:14:44Z")
Kidding. This thread is getting out of hand… Bonus points if anyone knows the reference (without Googling it). ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/71 "2005-01-24T14:24:23Z")
Have a Delicious Hostess Fruit Pie, Apos. I certainly would love to see the pictures, as well. If it’s a photobucket account, remember to unlock it, or we can’t see the album, just individual shots, which are a pain to code. Lib, if it helps any, you’ve been kinda running sideways at things in the last three weeks. You may want to switch your coffee again, and do the three breaths to think before you post, and try to make sure other people do mean what you think they mean. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/72 "2005-01-24T14:30:06Z")
I’d like to see Apos’s attachments, but what in the hell is a Yenc? \ ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/73 "2005-01-24T14:47:37Z")
From what I’ve read the only **actual** site damage is to the bricks that made up the base of the Ishtar Gate as the gate itself was moved years ago (Additionally these bricks were reportedly painted over by Saddam). Everything else is site contamination, not damage. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/74 "2005-01-24T15:12:32Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Nah, most people are replaceable; historical artifacts aren’t. 😃 Check out this classic “God-Man” strip from Ruben Bolling’s _Tom the Dancing Bug:_[http://archive.salon.com/comics/boll/2001/03/29/boll/index.html](http://archive.salon.com/comics/boll/2001/03/29/boll/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/75 "2005-01-24T16:36:20Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Dio, your article goes on to say: > > A Polish military spokesman in Iraq said troops were cooperating with Iraqi authorities in efforts to protect the site. > > ‘‘I have asked our archaeologists to prepare a specific answer to the accusations, but I have to give them some time,’’ Lt. Col. Artur Domanski said. > > The city’s main sites the Ishtar Gate, the ruins of Babylon and the Nebuchadnezzar Palace are in a separate area on the camp’s perimeter, run by Iraqi officials as an archaeological park to paying visitors. > > The U.S. military says all earth moving has been halted and it is considering moving troops away to protect the ruins. > > Lt. Col. Steven Boylan, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, said all engineering works were discussed with the head of the Babylon museum. > > ‘‘An archaeologist examined every construction initiative for its impact on historical ruins,’’ he said. > > In the report, Curtis acknowledged that at first the U.S. presence had helped to protect the site from looters. Hey, why let a little insignificant detail like the facts get in the way of a chance to post the rant du jour about Bush and the war? Genocide equipment - snicker. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/76 "2005-01-24T22:50:37Z")
[analogy]If I cooperate with my rapist so that he just rapes me but doesn’t maim or kill me, then is he really raping me at all?[/analogy] ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/77 "2005-01-24T23:00:52Z")
It seems that in the Histories of the History of Wars there have been distruction of countless historical sites. Is it just a pittable offense because the US is involved? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/78 "2005-01-24T23:10:32Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’m glad someone bumped this thread because I missed your comment before. And you’re right. You get to pick and choose. But I get to tell you that I think your choices are wrongheaded and contradictory. Sure, you can wail about the misfortunes of poor Blacks in the inner cities. But if you simultaneously ignore the dreadful plights of the equally unfortunate poor Whites in Appalachia, your standard is as tilted as the tower in Pisa. and you’d be wrong once more. Do you demand that some one who’d lost a loved one to Muscular Dystrophy also donate equal amounts of time and money to the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, the American Cancer Society etc? Your argument only works if the person is suggesting that **only** their choice is worthy of concern. My capacity to care may indeed be infinate, but my time, energy, and other resources aren’t. To suggest that my caring is less or specious because I don’t choose the same battles as you is arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/79 "2005-01-25T00:18:30Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Nah, most people are replaceable; historical artifacts aren’t. > [@Airman Doors](#): > > That is perhaps the most callous thing I have ever seen. I can understand how you can feel that way, but really, I have to agree with **gobear** on this one. As a historian, my perspective may be different. When one looks at thousands of years of history, one human life is infantesimal. Emotionally, each human being is priceless, and irreplaceable to those who love them, but to the rest of the world, insignificant. 99.99% of human beings will die and be utterly forgotton. I dearly love my mother. I love my husband, my sister and my grandmother, but when they are gone, only the immediate members of my family will care. Two generations from now, they will be but a name on a stone. However, the handmade quilts that my grandmother makes will be cherished for generations to come. All that remains to say, “I existed” are the material things we leave behind. You can achieve immortality though something you made, or touched. Nothing awes me more than to see a fingerprint fired into the clay of a pot made before Christ. To lose those tangible links with those people from the past is an incredible loss. Artifacts of lost civilizations are incredibly precious because each tiny piece may be something that teaches us an important fact about that culture. A bead or shard may reveal trade routes that were unknown, as could art or idols. To have a site disturbed strips a great deal of information from artifacts. Things become undatable because the strata have been disturbed. Who knows what knowledge we may have lost? Would I die to save “mere” pottery shards? Yes. Would I have sacrificed myself to save the Baghdad Museum from being looted? Yes. Would I have laid down my life to stop the Taliban from destroying the Buddhas? Yes. Because what those things would have meant to furture generations is far more than what my selfish little life will mean. I would have been proud to die for such things-- it would be a worthy and noble death. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010/80 "2005-01-25T00:18:54Z")
I just popped in to tell **margin** thank you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-are-fucking-up-the-ruins-of-ancient-babylon/285010.md?page=5)