# US troops in Europe **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 4, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805 "2005-10-04T23:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jeffr062](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jeffr062](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeffr062)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/1 "2005-10-04T23:44:58Z")
Is it time for the U.S. to pull the rest of its troops out of Europe? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/2 "2005-10-05T00:00:27Z")
> [@Jeffr062](#): > > Is it time for the U.S. to pull the rest of its troops out of Europe? /Checks watch. Yep. This sounds more like IMHO or GD to me. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/3 "2005-10-05T00:25:45Z")
Certainly…we should have done so years ago (if not decades 😉 ). I think the Europeans can finally be trusted not to slaughter each other in job lots… 😛 (only SLIGHTLY tongue in cheek) -XT ---
**Author:** ![Jeffr062](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jeffr062](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeffr062)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/4 "2005-10-05T02:14:38Z")
Would the NATO treaties allow the removel of US troops from Europe? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/5 "2005-10-05T02:25:17Z")
From memory, I don’t think there is anything in NATO that specifies that US troops have to be stationed there…its more a mutual defense treaty. We are only obligated if a NATO signatory nation is attacked (like they are obligated to defend us if attacked). Of course, if they return to their blood thirsty ways and start wacking each other then all bets are off. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/6 "2005-10-05T02:33:04Z")
> [@Jeffr062](#): > > Would the NATO treaties allow the removel of US troops from Europe? There wouldn’t be much trouble with treaties compared to potential opposition to the economic impact of removing the troops. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/7 "2005-10-05T04:23:24Z")
Take our troops out of Europe would allow us to re-deploy them to Iraq or Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/8 "2005-10-05T04:28:45Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > There wouldn’t be much trouble with treaties compared to potential opposition to the economic impact of removing the troops. Since that isn’t part of our NATO obligations, why should we care? ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/9 "2005-10-05T04:29:40Z")
If they don’t mind us being there, why not stay? It’s been very helpful to the US since the Iraq war began to have bases in Germany, and if the US wants to maintain its capability to deploy troops anywhere in the world in a short timespan, won’t we need those bases? They were very useful in the Balkans as well. Having said that, maybe we need _fewer_ troops than are currently there, though the number has already fallen so dramatically since the end of the Cold War… A while ago (and maybe still?) they were talking of closing all the bases in Germany and Italy and opening bases in, I think, Romania and Bulgaria. Those new bases would just be for soldiers – no family members, no schools, none of that. I think that’s foolish. I know from experience that soldiers do not like being kept away from their families for extended periods of times; it hurts morale, and probably lowers re-enlistment. The bases that exist in Germany and Italy (and the UK, Spain, Portugal, etc.) have a fine infrastructure for the families – why mess with that? ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/10 "2005-10-05T04:39:24Z")
[QUOTE=The bases that exist in Germany and Italy (and the UK, Spain, Portugal, etc.) have a fine infrastructure for the families – why mess with that?[/QUOTE] We have 2 wars in very diffrent places. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/11 "2005-10-05T05:25:50Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > Since that isn’t part of our NATO obligations, why should we care? On that note, why should we care what our NATO obligations are? We certainly don’t give a rat’s heinie about other treaties, such as signing on to the UN charter, or the ABM treaty, or the Geneva Conventions… ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/12 "2005-10-05T05:43:39Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > On that note, why should we care what our NATO obligations are? > We certainly don’t give a rat’s heinie about other treaties, such as signing on to the UN charter, or the ABM treaty, or the Geneva Conventions… Umm, our armed forces are not paid for by US citizens or provided by the Constitution to support the unsustaining economy of a town thousands of miles from our borders. So, apparently my “note” has some reasoning and yours is just another attempt to bash the administration. Don’t you ponies have at least another trick to fall back on? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/13 "2005-10-05T17:34:12Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > Umm, our armed forces are not paid for by US citizens or provided by the Constitution to support the unsustaining economy of a town thousands of miles from our borders. So, apparently my “note” has some reasoning and yours is just another attempt to bash the administration. Don’t you ponies have at least another trick to fall back on? No, that is not the “purpose” of our armed forces. We all their “purpose” is to support the unsustaining economy of towns in districts run by influential Congressmen. Back to my POINT, I was saying that there would be opposition on the part of the Europeans to this withdrawl of troops because of its economic impact. I was not making a value judgement, just a statement of fact. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/14 "2005-10-05T17:37:50Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Back to my POINT, I was saying that there would be opposition on the part of the Europeans to this withdrawl of troops because of its economic impact. I was not making a value judgement, just a statement of fact. Assuming this is true (I’m sure to some extent it is true, at least at the local level), again why should we care? Its not the US tax payers job, nor the job of the Federal Government, to subsidize the economy of various towns in Europe…right? This issue shouldn’t even factor in to the equation of whether or not the US keeps troops in Europe. If there is some strategic value in maintaining some of those bases or keeping troops, and the host countries are willing, then we should…if not, not. Simple as that. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/15 "2005-10-05T18:24:11Z")
I don’t think there’s any question that the United States will have a military presence in Europe in some form for many years to come. We have air bases and naval stations there because it is convenient to have them, as a supply and repair facility for these mobile forces. Even if Army garrisons are reduced, these sorts of bases, plus supply prepositioning, ought to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/16 "2005-10-05T19:40:50Z")
You can argue about whether or not [this guy](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805077979/002-5164142-7922416?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance) has a partisan political agenda, but he makes a remarkably compelling case that our current military posture has little to do with the strategic considerations publicly used to justify our deployments and everything to do with under-discussed economic aims that primarily benefit a small minority. It’s an eye-opening read. ---
**Author:** ![Jeffr062](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jeffr062](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeffr062)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/17 "2005-10-05T21:16:47Z")
Two more questions 1, Seeing as how these bases are for the defense of our NATO alies, do they help pay for the housing and maintaing of these troops? 2, If we did pull all US Army, Navy, Airforce units out of Europe would the European armed forces be strong enough to pick up the slack? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-in-europe/324805/18 "2005-10-05T21:51:00Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Assuming this is true (I’m sure to some extent it is true, at least at the local level), again why should we care? Its not the US tax payers job, nor the job of the Federal Government, to subsidize the economy of various towns in Europe…right? This issue shouldn’t even factor in to the equation of whether or not the US keeps troops in Europe. If there is some strategic value in maintaining some of those bases or keeping troops, and the host countries are willing, then we should…if not, not. Simple as that. > > -XT I DID NOT SAY that it was our job to take care of them. I am merely stating that it would have a negative economic impact, which would create political opposition to us doing it. Whether or not we care what they think is another issue, which the invasion of Iraq probably settled as far as the current administration is concerned.