# US troops shoot Reuters cameraman **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847 "2003-08-17T23:37:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/1 "2003-08-17T23:37:41Z")
[CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/17/sprj.irq.cameraman.reut/index.html) Yeesh. What will this mean for the occupation of Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/2 "2003-08-17T23:49:54Z")
Just one more civilian casualty. I doubt it will make a bit of difference. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/3 "2003-08-17T23:54:07Z")
From the linked article: > [@](#): > > …The U.S. military acknowledged on Sunday that its troops had “engaged” a Reuters cameraman, saying they had thought his camera was a rocket propelled grenade launcher… Sounds like a good ole’ fashioned ‘whoops’ to me. I can certainly see how a large shoulder-carried camera could be mistaken for a rocket launcher of some flavor, in the heat of the moment. What will this mean for the occupation of Iraq? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/4 "2003-08-18T00:09:51Z")
Yeah. cameras look exactly like rocket launchers…not. The government will simply find a way to blame the victim, the public will buy it and that will be that. The last thing this administration cares about is civilian casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/5 "2003-08-18T00:13:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*From the linked article: > > Sounds like a good ole’ fashioned ‘whoops’ to me. I can certainly see how a large shoulder-carried camera could be mistaken for a rocket launcher of some flavor, in the heat of the moment. > > What will this mean for the occupation of Iraq? Nothing. \*\* I agree that this will mean nothing to the occupation of Iraq. However, from the description given by the colleague of the cameraman, it doesn’t sound like there was too much “heat” at the “moment.” They had been talking to one soldier, who denied them a request to speak to an officer, but allowed them to film from a bridge. They get in the car, see a tank roll up, get back out to film it, and the cameraman gets shot. The colleague believed that they were clearly seen. The shooter fucked up, bad. I feel very sad for the cameraman and his family. I feel for the soldier who shot him, who will likely live with this death weighing on his heart. “Good ole’ fashion ‘whoops’” doesn’t really accurately catch all of that, huh? At least, I hope not, for anyone with a heart or conscience. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/6 "2003-08-18T00:18:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **Yeah. cameras look exactly like rocket launchers…not…** Obviously, certain types of cameras look enough like a rocket launcher to get you shot if you point it at soldiers, huh? Or are you suggesting that the soldier shot the cameraman out of pure spite; That he _intended_ to kill a reporter? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/7 "2003-08-18T00:22:20Z")
I think what’s being suggested is that our troops are so scared they shoot at anything that even appears threatening. And for that I blame your hero , our misleader. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/8 "2003-08-18T00:23:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Obviously, certain types of cameras look enough like a rocket launcher to get you shot if you point it at soldiers, huh? Or are you suggesting that the soldier shot the cameraman out of pure spite; That he _intended_ to kill a reporter? \*\* > [@](#): > > Recounting the moments before the shooting, Reuters soundman Nael al-Shyoukhi, who was working with Dana, said he had asked a U.S. soldier near the prison if they could speak to an officer and was told they could not. > > “They saw us and they knew about our identities and our mission,” Shyoukhi said. The incident happened in the afternoon in daylight. > > The soldier agreed to their request to film an overview of the prison from a bridge nearby. > > “After we filmed we went into the car and prepared to go when a convoy led by a tank arrived and Mazen stepped out of the car to film. I followed him and Mazen walked three to four meters (yards). We were noted and seen clearly,” Shyoukhi said. It doesn’t sound like an accident to me. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/9 "2003-08-18T00:29:38Z")
Diog: Ok then. Not an accident. I’m listening. What scenario do you envision for this deliberate shooting? What motivation do you suppose that these soldiers had to open fire on a person that they knew was a newsman? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/10 "2003-08-18T00:31:33Z")
On second thought, what **Reeder** said. These guys had already spoken to US soldiers and had been told they could film from the bridge. It was broad daylight and they were easy to see. Somebody got really trigger happy in a big-ass hurry. Either he intended to shoot a reporter or he was so shit-scared and paranoid that he was just shooting at anything that moved. I would obviously suspect the latter over the former but that bespeaks a lack opf leadership and discipline in the ranks. How many innocent Iraqis have been shot in retaliation for guerilla attacks because US troops were just blasting away at everything in sight? I can understand where the paranoia would come from but somebody in leadership has to be a steadying hand over there. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/11 "2003-08-18T00:34:47Z")
> [@](#): > > It doesn’t sound like an accident to me. It sounds like an accident to me. The camera crew apparently only talked to the soldiers in front of the prison. So sure, the prison guards knew they were journalists. But they were not the ones that shot. Do we know if those soldiers on the tank were told about the camera crew and that they were filming on that bridge? How do we know that those soldiers knew the people in that car on the bridge were journalists? Shyoukhi says they were noted and seen clearly. How would he know the people in the tank had seen and noted them clearly for what they actually were? ---
**Author:** ![Read\_Neck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Read\_Neck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Read_Neck)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/12 "2003-08-18T01:37:29Z")
> [@](#): > > “After we filmed we went into the car and prepared to go when a convoy led by a tank arrived and Mazen stepped out of the car to film. I followed him and Mazen walked three to four meters (yards). We were noted and seen clearly,” Shyoukhi said. > > "A soldier on the tank shot at us. I lay on the ground. I heard Mazen and I saw him scream and touching his chest. > > "I cried at the soldier, telling him you killed a journalist. They shouted at me and asked me to step back and I said ‘I will step back, but please help, please help and stop the bleed’. Why does he have to tell the soldiers they shot a journalist? Could it be that they weren’t wearing anything to identify themselves or their vehicle as “PRESS”… ---
**Author:** ![poink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a3d4f5/32.png) [@poink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poink)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/13 "2003-08-18T01:38:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Yeah. cameras look exactly like rocket launchers…not. > > The government will simply find a way to blame the victim, the public will buy it and that will be that. The last thing this administration cares about is civilian casualties. \*\* have you ever been in combat situation where you had to watch your life and the lives around you on a non-stop basis? are you even familiar with what anti-tank and other ‘rocket launchers’ look like? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/14 "2003-08-18T01:54:11Z")
Seems some kids with guns are nervous and trigger happy ? Speaks loads about the conditions in Iraq… conditions that Bush describes as “not dire yet”. Like someone said… how many of the civilian casualties were useless deaths like this journalists death. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/15 "2003-08-18T02:15:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by poink \* > \*\*have you ever been in combat situation where you had to watch your life and the lives around you on a non-stop basis? are you even familiar with what anti-tank and other ‘rocket launchers’ look like? \*\* They weren’t in a combat situation, remember? At least, not officially. I agree that these soldiers are so worried about the ongoing attacks on them that they probably reacted on instinct. I can see how a camera might look like a rocket launcher if seen only indistinctly. I can see how some soldier made a mistake. But doesn’t the fact that such a mistake was made speak volumes about the conditions in Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/16 "2003-08-18T02:20:25Z")
Well, first of all, ALL of Iraq is a combat zone, at the moment, from what I understand, and screw whatever the news media or the President says. If someone is taking shots at American soldiers or blowing shit up, it’s a combat zone. Secondly, from what I understand, the American soldiers there are more than a little jittery. They get to walk around wearing American soldier uniforms that have everything except targets hanging on them, and there are plenty of Iraqis that are only too happy to take potshots at them on general principle. Thirdly, if I were there now, and I saw someone pointing something at me that was large, black, bulky, and sitting on his shoulder, I’d cap the bastard NOW and ask questions later. Fourthly, I would have to be insane to shoot a Reuters cameraman and then not kill everyone who saw me do it. It was a mistake. A tragic, stupid mistake, but I have a very hard time believing our boys are happily slaughtering reporters for fun over there. Particularly if they’re dumb enough to then let the international news report the story. ---
**Author:** ![poink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a3d4f5/32.png) [@poink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poink)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/17 "2003-08-18T02:23:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rashak Mani \* > \*\*Seems some kids with guns are nervous and trigger happy ? Speaks loads about the conditions in Iraq… conditions that Bush describes as “not dire yet”. > > Like someone said… how many of the civilian casualties were useless deaths like this journalists death. \*\* those soldiers you refer to as kids are probably more responsible and morally up-right than your majority of couch quarterbacks commenting on the happenings of this war. i’m sure you would be nervous too if you were in a ‘conflict area’, where people you know are being killed on a daily basis doing things like guarding iraqi museums and hospitals. not to mention the entire country is armed to the teeth with weapons ranging from automatic weapons to RPG’s. how many civilians would still be dying due to disease and starvation because their ruler would not comply with 12 years of sanctions. i think the number would be far more than those killed in a few of war. ---
**Author:** ![poink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a3d4f5/32.png) [@poink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poink)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/18 "2003-08-18T02:24:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVAA \* > \*\*But doesn’t the fact that such a mistake was made speak volumes about the conditions in Iraq? \*\* i’m not sure what you mean? i think the majority of us still consider iraq to be a dangerous place even after the war was officially declared over. please elaborate. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/19 "2003-08-18T02:39:01Z")
Just popping back in to do some more back-pedalling. My first impulse on seeing the shoulder held camera mistaken as a rocket launcher was “yeah, right” and I posted in haste. I immediately thought better of that response and I tried to back off of that in my next post and agree that the guy was just trigger happy but maybe I wasn’t clear enough. \*I don’t think the kid intentionally killed a journalist. I’m sorry I said that. \* I agree that he probably just got spooked and has doubtlessly been on edge for months. Somebody should have issued a general warning to soldiers at the prison that there were journalists near by and not to shoot them, but I don’t blame the kid. As soon as I can think of a way to blame GWB, I’ll post it. ---
**Author:** ![Homer\_J.Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a698b9/32.png) [@Homer\_J.Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer_J.Simpson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/20 "2003-08-18T02:44:44Z")
Will the shooter face disciplinary action? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847.md?page=2)