# US troops shoot Reuters cameraman **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847 "2003-08-17T23:37:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/21 "2003-08-18T02:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homer J. Simpson \* > \*\*Will the shooter face disciplinary action? \*\* No, and he shouldn’t. The blame lies with the Bush admin for not preparing for the aftermath. Not enough troops to do the job. Not enough supplies for the troops that are there. No one should blame the brave young man. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/22 "2003-08-18T02:59:37Z")
It’s probably too early for anyone to say if the Soldier who fired his weapon should or should not face disciplinary action. Since there was a shooting, I believe that the military will conduct an investigation. The results of that investigation will most likely be the determining factor regarding disciplinary action. To make a statement now one way or the other is just reactionary. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/23 "2003-08-18T03:15:03Z")
Hey this little accident is chump change if we can force our brains back a few months: > [@](#): > > An American tank fired on the Palestine Hotel early Tuesday, where foreign journalists have been covering the war from balconies and the roof. > > Less than a mile away, a reporter for Al-Jazeera television was killed when U.S.-led forces bombed his office. Nearby, coalition artillery battered the Baghdad office of Abu Dhabi television, trapping more than 25 reporters who phoned for help from the basement. > > “I’m astonished and shocked,” said Art Bourbon, news director of Abu Dhabi, speaking from the network’s headquarters in the United Arab Emirates. “We’ve been in this office for more than 2 years. Anyone going into military operations would have known our location.” While I don’t think there are assasination orders out for reporters, some sort of unofficial intimidation isn’t beyond belief. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/24 "2003-08-18T03:21:06Z")
Oops, forgot linky: [Fox News Story from April 8/03](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83503,00.html) (thought I’d use them to defer anti-american bias comments) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/25 "2003-08-18T07:17:50Z")
US explanations of this case are contradictory and have no credibility whatsoever. > [@](#): > > [http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id\_article=7739](http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=7739) > > 13 August 2003 - “Unacceptable” enquiry clears soldiers in killing of two journalists in Palestine Hotel > > Reporters Without Borders today rejected a US military enquiry which has reportedly concluded that a tank crew acted in self-defence when it fired on the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad on 8 April, killing Taras Protsyuk, a Ukrainian cameraman working for Reuters, and José Couso, a Spanish cameraman with the commercial TV station Telecinquo. > > The report by US central command was “unacceptable,” the organisation said. The details of the findings have not been released, but Agence France-Presse yesterday quoted a US official as saying a summary was sent to the Spanish and Ukrainian governments. > > “All the facts at our disposal indicate exactly the opposite, that there are no grounds for claiming self-defence, and saying this is a lie,” Reporters Without Borders secretary-general Robert Ménard said. “These findings are the umpteenth US military version of what happened on 8 April and they all contradict each other,” he said. [Ukraine demands follow-up on cameraman’s death in Iraq](http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s924852.htm) [Journalists who died in Iraq since the U.S.-led military campaign began](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/08/17/international1452EDT0477.DTL) ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/26 "2003-08-18T07:41:42Z")
I think it’s useful to see this in a broader context. The mission of these troops is to try and act as troops/police/peacekeepers/aid suppliers in the midst of a partly urban terrorism/insurgency campaign, albeit one of relatively low intensity. Given the nature of urban fighting, casualties will be high both among fighting forces and innocent civilians. This cannot be avoided unless the mission is changed. ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/27 "2003-08-18T08:08:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Yeah. cameras look exactly like rocket launchers…not. > > \*\* Actually quite a few could pass from a distance, shoulder launched anti-tank missiles are usually quite a bit more bulky than the average professional video camera but at a glance (and especially under duress) they can appear very similar. You have a shoulder mounted box like apparatus, both have visible lenses and sights, both may be tripod mounted or not. Bluring the distinction is the fact that some older cameras can be quite large while a few missiles can be pretty small relatively speaking. The fact that this journalist was filming a tank is especially telling, from a distance you had a soldier who saw a guy get out of a civillian vehicle, swing something up onto his shoulder and take aim at one of your tanks. He made a snap judgment in a dangerous place under stress and made a bad call. This is a tragic accident and should be viewed as such. Here are some interesting pictures of current and past anti-tank missiles. Judge for yourself whether you could possibly have made a mistake under difficult circumstances. [http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/anti\_tank.htm](http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/anti_tank.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Homer\_J.Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a698b9/32.png) [@Homer\_J.Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer_J.Simpson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/28 "2003-08-18T08:14:02Z")
But shouldn’t the soldiers be warned there was a cameraman authorized to be in the area? If so, isn’t this soldier responsible? If not, isn’t someone responsible for not informing this soldier a cameraman was authorized to be in the area? Someone in the military is at fault here. It is not like the cameraman was in an area he was not authorized to be in. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/29 "2003-08-18T09:59:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lokij \* > \*\*Here are some interesting pictures of current and past anti-tank missiles. Judge for yourself whether you could possibly have made a mistake under difficult circumstances. > > [http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/anti\_tank.htm](http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/anti_tank.htm) \*\* That first looks a lot like a camera. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/30 "2003-08-18T11:37:09Z")
Um, maybe this is out of line but when reporters or anyone else enters a combat zone, or whatever you want to call it, aren’t they taking a chance with their lives? Marc ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/31 "2003-08-18T13:11:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > Um, maybe this is out of line but when reporters or anyone else enters a combat zone, or whatever you want to call it, aren’t they taking a chance with their lives? A recruit who joins the police force also takes a chance with his life. What’s your point? That it is OK to kill them? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/32 "2003-08-18T13:32:24Z")
Is there going to be an inquiry to find out what happened. Al-Jazeera Bureau in Baghdad Al-Jazeera HQ in Kabul Palestinean Hotel and other questionable incidents seem to indicate there may be a problem with the procedures the media and US forces use to talk to each other. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/33 "2003-08-18T13:43:23Z")
You can blame the US administration who so desperately wanted to wage this war. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/34 "2003-08-18T13:53:05Z")
Frankly it doesn’t matter what we think on this board, or even what the truth is in this incident - what matters is how it’s seen in Iraq. You can bet there are plenty of “bad guys” who are makeing propaganda out of every civillian killing. The pictures coming out of Iraq are starting to look horribly reminiscent of other attempts to police a civilian population with troops - Isreal say, or Northern Ireland. The American troops don’t seem to have been taught even basics like taking off sunglasses to make eye-contact and not screaming and shouting abuse. I saw a harrowing scene of a little girl shot in a car that didn’t stop (one of many such incidents apparently) the troops shouted “Stop!” in **English** nobody had thought to teach them something as basic as the word for stop.:smack: (I’m betting they’ve not been taught “please” and “thank-you” either, trivial?, not if you’re trying not to look like an army of occupation) It doesn’t take many terriorist acts to make troops twitchy (and occasionally vengeful) -and it doesn’t take many “Regrettable incidents” to make people do stupid things. Look at Bloody Sunday - 13 unarmed protesters shot by British troops. There are still arguements more than 2 decades later about what happened and why - but no doubt at all that that “Regrettable incident” led to support for the Provisional IRA terror campaign. Sadly the bad guys know this, even if the coalition planners don’t, yet ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/35 "2003-08-18T13:56:19Z")
**yojimbo** , you can see on **sailor’s** link that the US military seems to think the Palestine hotel incident is closed (though Reporters Sans Frontier disagrees). ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/36 "2003-08-18T14:10:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Capt B. Phart \* > You can bet there are plenty of “bad guys” who are makeing propaganda out of every civillian killing. > \ > Sadly the bad guys know this, even if the coalition planners don’t … “propaganda” out of every civilian killing? how would that go? “Look! The Americans are killing us!” mmm… yeah, real sneaky and devious those “bad guys” time to re-assess who are the “bad guys” folks ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/37 "2003-08-18T15:53:28Z")
Damn, Making not Makeing - well Real Men don’t preview **ChaosGod** I’m thinking of Ba’athists and members of Al-Qua’ida type organisations (religious and nationalist extremists). Maybe “bad guys” isn’t the smartest term I could have used because it possibly suggests I think there are “good guys” but if the people letting off bombs in Iraq and Saudi make progress I’m certain a lot of people are going to suffer, and thats \*\* _bad_ \*\* . Personally I think the war was wrong on a number of levels, but still the Iraqis would be better off with a functioning economy and a democratic government. The coalition is trying to achieve that (yes, while stealing their Oil, and playing regonal power-games - I know). The big problem is that you can’t just impose “freedom” - look at post-colonial Africa, how many countries left democratic now? > [@](#): > > … “propaganda” out of every civilian killing? > how would that go? Well the strongest propaganda is always based on the truth ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/38 "2003-08-18T17:09:49Z")
I can understand the mistake - I DO think it was a mistake. The camera was pointed at a tank, and viewed from the front I’d be hard pressed to distiguish between a camera or a rocket launcher. I don’t like the “shoot first ask questions later” mentality that this incident obviously shows us is the norm for the troops over there, but what I really don’t like is the whole stinking situation that we’re empbroiled in now. It doesn’t help anything that the reporter was palestinian, either. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/39 "2003-08-18T17:24:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*A recruit who joins the police force also takes a chance with his life. What’s your point? That it is OK to kill them? :rolleyes: \*\* :rolleyes: Ooo, I love post full of :rolleyes: because they make you look so intelligent and funny. You really think I said it was ok to kill reporters? You might as well ask me if I’ve stopped beating my wife. Marc Oops, almost forgot. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847/40 "2003-08-18T18:39:52Z")
So what _was_ your point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-troops-shoot-reuters-cameraman/195847.md?page=3)