# Us versus other mammals **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784 "2023-02-14T18:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/41 "2023-02-15T15:14:05Z")
I reject that premise - rocks and sticks are as “natural” weapons for humans as claws and teeth are to big cats. They were a critical part of our evolution. ---
**Author:** ![2\_More\_Bits](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2_more_bits/32/4148_2.png) [@2\_More\_Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2_More_Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/42 "2023-02-15T15:21:03Z")
I agree with you there. Lucky for us too! Otherwise we’d probably have evolved into a prey species. (Aren’t ridiculous thought exercises allowed here?) ---
**Author:** ![2\_More\_Bits](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2_more_bits/32/4148_2.png) [@2\_More\_Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2_More_Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/43 "2023-02-15T15:39:12Z")
I had intended to write: “I have a notion that homo sapiens are rather worthless _without_ their tools.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/44 "2023-02-15T15:49:48Z")
Indeed! I’m just pointing out that a “fair” comparison to humans without rocks would be, say, big cats without claws and teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/45 "2023-02-15T15:51:22Z")
No kicks or punches needed. I can choke out a human. I’m sure I could choke out an exhausted deer, too. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/46 "2023-02-15T16:30:40Z")
I think it’s true we do not posses many physical defenses like claws, large sharp teeth, horns, etc. Our main weapon is our large brain and emotions, as well as the opposable thumb - put that together and we are able to devise tools to defend ourselves against anything from viruses to polar bears. But yeah, without tools we are pretty vulnerable, and our best instinct during encounters with other animals, where we do not have our tools, is to flee. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/47 "2023-02-15T16:31:01Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > I’m confident that I can out wrestle a bear. Bears actually have different wrestling rules from humans. Bear rules allow a hold called ‘The Cave-In’ where the wrestling bear bites off the front half of the neck and the lower jaw of their opponent. Very effective and totally legal. ---
**Author:** ![2\_More\_Bits](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2_more_bits/32/4148_2.png) [@2\_More\_Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2_More_Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/48 "2023-02-15T16:54:58Z")
I’ve never met Capn\_Carl but I suspect they could out wrestle [Little Boris](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlYFXCN3cEQ). ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/49 "2023-02-15T23:12:27Z")
Count me as one of those annoyed by the persistence hunting factoid, which seems to infect many threads. Yes some groups of humans on earth use their endurance along with being quite organized and working as a team, to hunt animals. But there are certainly downsides to this form of hunting, and it’s debatable whether this was ever the main way that we, or the ancestors of Homo sapiens, hunted. In terms of this thread, it’s doubtful that it is relevant. A person without training is likely to lose sight of most animals quite quickly. Or not know how to chase without provoking the animal into defending itself. A successful persistence hunt needs several premises tacked on. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/50 "2023-02-15T23:19:45Z")
Humanity’s greatest strength might be our versatility and adaptability – who knows if persistence hunting was ever a common or widely used strategy for our ancestors. But perhaps it was always there as an option of last resort – if times are really tough, we can always go run down an antelope, hard as it may be… and maybe times got that tough at least once or twice a generation, such that these characteristics always had reason to stick around in our genomes (i.e. those that survived those tough times were those with this capability to pass down to their children). But I understand this is just a hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/51 "2023-02-15T23:24:01Z")
Ok, and I realize my last post was a bit ranty. I’m fine with it being mentioned as one plausible hypothesis. I enjoyed the Attenborough episode as much as the next man. It’s the people who matter-of-factly declare that it is the core technique of human hunting, and has driven our evolution, that grinds my gears. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/52 "2023-02-16T02:23:39Z")
uhhh. Where I live we have moose, bear, deer, coyotes, fox, rabbits, and all kinds of squirrels. I’ve had a number of Border Collies. Fast sprinters and quick turners. I’ve seen them catch a squirrel a few times. I don’t encourage it. As far as moose or bear are concerned, I just want to out run them, but I’ll be going in the other direction. So far so good. On open plains, a hunting group of tool-less humans seem to have been able to do this. In steep mountainous tree covered ground. Without tools, you wouldn’t have a prayer. And FYI, at least around here, moose aren’t afraid of anything. There is good reason for that. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/53 "2023-02-16T02:33:26Z")
Ahhh the internet. Where people will argue how Bruce Lee wouldn’t win a street fight and how they could beat a bear! ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/54 "2023-02-16T03:00:59Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Count me as one of those annoyed by the persistence hunting factoid, which seems to infect many threads. It is really going to depend upon where you are and what the land is like to make persistence hunting work. Open savanna on the African plane?, with more than a little help from the sun, sure, that animal is going to drop. Rain forest of the Pacific NW? Two steps and around the next tree and you are not going to see that deer or elk again that day. Sometimes you can’t even find the animal after you are sure that you have shot it. ---
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/55 "2023-02-16T03:59:47Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > On open plains, a hunting group of tool-less humans seem to have been able to do this. In steep mountainous tree covered ground. I’ve hunted deer, elk and bison in the Rocky Mountains. Not as thick of forest as elsewhere but plenty steep and mountainous. The prey animals usually only run for about 1/4 mile or so. You do need to be able to track them, but you can slow walk right up to them again. Bison were the hardest, if you actually scare them they will walk for miles. The others were easy to walk up into spear/arrow range again (I’m a lousy shot, so get that close with a rifle). Never tried wearing them out and strangling or bashing on the head with a rock, have heard that makes the meat taste bad. But I’m sure I (middle aged desk jockey who hikes sometimes) could do it with deer and elk at least. Do agree that a human that isn’t even allowed to use rocks or sticks is completely unrealistic. We’ve spent the last couple of million years evolving to use tools instead of strength. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/56 "2023-02-16T06:22:36Z")
Sounds like a lot of work when there are so many easier non-mammal things to eat. Especially if you count fire as a tool. ETA -Not trying to thread shit; just wanted to point out that it’s a lot less likely to happen without an incentive. If starvation is the incentive, then you’re probably in no condition to even attempt to chase down and kill a mammal. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/57 "2023-02-16T06:40:09Z")
Stick me in a UFC match against a tiger and I will be declared the winner within five minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/58 "2023-02-16T06:43:36Z")
The winner of the tiger’s tastiest meal of the day perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/59 "2023-02-16T06:46:23Z")
It goes like this: 1. The tiger rips into me, tearing with claws and biting with teeth. 2. The match is stopped for massive rule breaking. 3. I am declared the winner by default…posthumously. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784/60 "2023-02-16T08:12:48Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Not trying to thread shit; just wanted to point out that it’s a lot less likely to happen without an incentive. If starvation is the incentive, then you’re probably in no condition to even attempt to chase down and kill a mammal. Humans who haven’t eaten in a day or three? They’re are so affected by hunger they couldn’t make the attempt. No food for two weeks? Nope, I don’t see it happening. At that point you’re digging in tidepools for stranded sea life, or scavenging the kills of other critters, or digging up grubs/termites/whatever. There’s also a difference between fit, knowledgeable hunter-gatherers who have been chasing dinner all their lives and today’s average city-dweller/office worker whose knowledge set and physical state is very different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-versus-other-mammals/979784.md?page=4)