# Us vs Them WRT protesters: Consistency? What's consistency? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2008, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351 "2008-07-22T08:19:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/61 "2008-07-23T22:08:30Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] You CANNOT shout someone down and you cannot disrupt someone else’s right to free speech. And you can absolutely be arrested for breaching the peace. It happens every day. If I’m walking down the sidewalk talking to someone and you follow me screaming your opinion you are interrupting MY freedom to be heard. If I’m sitting in my house and you drive by with a boom box you are breaching the peace. [/QUOTE] What does any of that have to do with protesting outside the convention? > [@](#): > > If you think you have a license to an audience then walk into the nearest courtroom and tell the judge what you think about ANYTHING. Tell him how much you dislike his or her robe. Bring a stopwatch and let us know how many seconds it took before you’re arrested. We’ll get to see you on the news as they drag you from the court screaming about your 1st amendment rights. Same scenario applies to any other public forum such as a city manager’s meeting. You want to shout at people you will be invited to leave, by force if necessary. Which has fuck all to to do with anything I said. If I want to stand outside the entrance to the conventions with a picket sign and chant slogans, it can hardly be compared to invading a courtroom and back-sassing the judge. But you knew that. You are in favor of shutting down all dissent by those who oppose your politics. We get it. But you don’t get to unleash an unholy army of straw men to knock down just because it is inconvenient to argue what I am actually talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/62 "2008-07-23T23:17:10Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] What does any of that have to do with protesting outside the convention? Which has fuck all to to do with anything I said. If I want to stand outside the entrance to the conventions with a picket sign and chant slogans, it can hardly be compared to invading a courtroom and back-sassing the judge. But you knew that. You are in favor of shutting down all dissent by those who oppose your politics. We get it. But you don’t get to unleash an unholy army of straw men to knock down just because it is inconvenient to argue what I am actually talking about. [/QUOTE] My unholy army of strawmen come from the land of reality. All I’ve done is spell out the you don’t have the right to stand in front of a convention for the reasons given. The protesting zones have already been established and will be enforced. Nothing that you say or do is going to change that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/63 "2008-07-23T23:23:20Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] My unholy army of strawmen come from the land of reality. All I’ve done is spell out the you don’t have the right to stand in front of a convention for the reasons given. [/QUOTE] So what was all that nonsense about invading courtrooms or chasing people down the streets? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/64 "2008-07-23T23:28:13Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Nothing that you say or do is going to change that. [/QUOTE] That’s what they told Rosa Parks. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/65 "2008-07-24T00:08:26Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I doubt RTF would have noticed anyway, he gets his “news” from whatever leftist blog he happens to be reading, I doubt they’d feature it. [/QUOTE] And **Weirddave** , who gets his “food” from dumpsters, read this story in which issue of the Baltimore Sun that he found in the dumpster? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/66 "2008-07-24T00:27:32Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] So what was all that nonsense about invading courtrooms or chasing people down the streets? [/QUOTE] You’re the one that said you had freedom to protest yet you acknowledge there are limits and those limits are, for this discussion, limited to peaceable assembly. That means you don’t have the right to disturb others. I gave examples for you to follow. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/67 "2008-07-24T00:28:55Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] That’s what they told Rosa Parks. [/QUOTE] Rosa Parks wasn’t disturbing anyone. She was fighting Jim Crowe laws. And apparently you are now acknowledging how our laws are practiced and wish to change the law. Best of luck in your endeavors. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/68 "2008-07-24T00:35:06Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] I’m simply not interested in your petty legalisms. In a democracy the right of a people to protest peacefully should not be constrained. [/QUOTE] BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! What a good thing it’s my petty legalisms that, you know… actually matter, and not your personally-crafted ideas of how things should be. So, good luck with your personal vision. And in the real world, things will go on as the law requires. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/69 "2008-07-24T00:37:02Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] You are in favor of shutting down all dissent by those who oppose your politics. We get it. But you don’t get to unleash an unholy army of straw men to knock down just because it is inconvenient to argue what I am actually talking about. [/QUOTE] This thread is about the Democrats seeking to shut down dissent. Is it really the case that the people protesting the DNC are the ones who “oppose [his] politics?” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/70 "2008-07-24T00:38:35Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Shouting slogans outside a venue is not breach of peace. If you find that disruptive, that is your problem. My right to express my dissent is guaranteed by the First Amendment, and you cannot restrict that right simply because you find my dissent disruptive. If I do not interfere with your access to the venue, and I demonstrate peacefully in a public space, the fact that you find that to be annoying is of no consequence. [/QUOTE] OK. Exercise that right. Pluck it off the tree on which you feel it grows. Let’s see how well that works for you. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/71 "2008-07-24T00:44:34Z")
I inadvertently posted this quote from **Weirddave** ’s link without comment earlier: > [@](#): > > Under current plans, the arrangements for protesters in St. Paul appear to provide protesters with closer access to the entrance of the convention hall than in Denver, where the arena is buffered from the protest area by hundreds of meters of parking lots, some of which may be filled with media trailers. Assuming that the Dems have rented the whole facility, including parking lots, I’m kinda curious, **Weirddave** , why you think that protesters have a right of access to those parking lots. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/72 "2008-07-24T01:40:52Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] And **Weirddave** , who gets his “food” from dumpsters, read this story in which issue of the Baltimore Sun that he found in the dumpster? [/QUOTE] I get my [beer from dumpsters](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=475840), try to keep up, willya? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/73 "2008-07-24T02:03:07Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I get my [beer from dumpsters](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=475840), try to keep up, willya? [/QUOTE] Fair 'nuff. So, which issue of the Baltimore Sun _did_ you read this story in? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/74 "2008-07-24T02:27:25Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] OK. Exercise that right. Pluck it off the tree on which you feel it grows. Let’s see how well that works for you. [/QUOTE] Were I in the area, I might take you up on that. I predict I would be arrested, then released a few hours later with reduced or no charges. That sound about right? Small price to pay for freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/75 "2008-07-24T02:42:56Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] So, which issue of the Baltimore Sun _did_ you read this story in? [/QUOTE] 😕 I started this thread after reading the YAHOO news/TIME article I linked in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/76 "2008-07-24T09:47:35Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] 😕 I started this thread after reading the YAHOO news/TIME article I linked in the OP. [/QUOTE] You suggested I hadn’t already been aware of this story because of my allegedly limited reading list. So let’s do a test: if I had been reading the Baltimore Sun, when would I have come across this story? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/77 "2008-07-24T15:00:39Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] You suggested I hadn’t already been aware of this story because of my allegedly limited reading list. So let’s do a test: if I had been reading the Baltimore Sun, when would I have come across this story? [/QUOTE] I don’t know. Actually, I have no idea why you would want to read that rag in the first place. I’m kinda missing whatever point you think you’re making here. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/78 "2008-07-24T15:30:44Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! What a good thing it’s my petty legalisms that, you know… actually matter, and not your personally-crafted ideas of how things should be. So, good luck with your personal vision. And in the real world, things will go on as the law requires. [/QUOTE] My interest in your petty legalisms are, unsurprisingly, not affected by your admittedly uncanny impression of a 9 year old. What does remain is the age old distinction between what is right and what is legal. What is right is that in a democracy leaders should not be shielded from the peaceful public expression of dissent. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/79 "2008-07-24T15:51:38Z")
I do love these threads where conservatives (which **Weirddave** is no matter what party affiliation he claims) find Dems doing something Republicans were called out on on these boards for in the past and then pre-emptively level charges of hypocrisy, only to discover the brainwashed libruhls actually oppose the principle regardless of partisan politics. It’s good theater. Please continue to post these OPs. FTR, evil liberal here who’s against the idea of “free speech zones” whether they’re implemented by the McCain or Obama camp. But you probably could have guessed that. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351/80 "2008-07-24T16:16:04Z")
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] I do love these threads where conservatives (which **Weirddave** is no matter what party affiliation he claims) [/quote] I’m a conservative Democrat, never made any bones about it. Party affiliation /= political philosophy. [QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] find Dems doing something Republicans were called out on on these boards for in the past and then pre-emptively level charges of hypocrisy, only to discover the brainwashed libruhls actually oppose the principle regardless of partisan politics. It’s good theater. Please continue to post these OPs. [/quote] Yea, except the national news article I quoted was two days old when I posted my OP and there wasn’t a peep from anyone on the boards about it. Last election cycle the outrage over the Republicans doing the same thing was monumental and immediate. You (royal you from here on out) can say after the fact “Oh, yea, we don’t like that either” after I’ve called you on it, but you’d be full of shit, as usual. You don’t give a shit about anything but what your partisan political masters tell you to think, and will roll naked through broken glass to suck a diseased dog’s cock to ensure that “your guys” get elected, completely ignoring that in their gratitude they promptly roll you over and fuck you up the ass with great enthusiasm. [QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] FTR, evil liberal here who’s against the idea of “free speech zones” whether they’re implemented by the McCain or Obama camp. But you probably could have guessed that. [/QUOTE] I don’t believe you. Not one little bit. When Republicans do something it’s unmitigated evil. When Democrats do the same thing it’s common sense, and a few weak denials after the fact when your hypocrisies are pointed out won’t change that. Want to change my mind? Stop being a party whore and apply your standards to both sides equally. Stop pretending that one side is “good” and the other “evil” and admit that they both sides want nothing more than power and money and will do anything to get it. Stop being a toady and start thinking for yourself, drop blind loyalty to any party and judge each issue and candidate on it’s/their individual merits. You want to be a liberal, be a liberal, but be loyal to your ideals and not to one party or another. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-vs-them-wrt-protesters-consistency-whats-consistency/457351.md?page=5)