# US warplanes defy Chinese air defence rules with B-52 flyover of disputed area **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 26, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855 "2013-11-26T20:16:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/1 "2013-11-26T20:16:35Z")
I’m not familiar with the tensions in Asia concerning China so I’m hoping someone can provide some more background than is given in the story, especially given say China’s claims on the Spratly Islands for example as well as other hot spots. > [@](#): > > US warplanes have directly challenged China’s claims of an expanding territorial air defense zone, flying dramatically and without incident on Monday over a disputed island chain. > > The incursion comes on the heels of a scathing statement over the weekend by defense secretary Chuck Hagel rejecting the expansion of the Chinese air defense zone into the East China sea as a provocative threat to regional stability. > > But the Pentagon insisted Tuesday that the overflight was not a reaction to the Chinese declaration. > > Lieutenant colonel Tom Crosson, a Defense Department spokesman, said the planes were not armed and flew “as part of a long-planned training sortie”. The Chinese did not in any way attempt to challenge the planes’ flight, Crosson said, nor did the pilots announce themselves to any Chinese authorities. > > Crosson said the Pentagon had yet to receive a message from China in response to the overflight. Full story from [The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/26/us-warplanes-defy-china-b-52-flyover) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/2 "2013-11-26T20:53:24Z")
This is a routine thing that happens between almost every country with a coastline and the US Navy. Some country claims a larger border than US and international law generally recgnizes, and the US sends planes or ships across the line to make a point that “it’s not yours just because you say it is.” The last time I recall shooting is way back in the 80s with Libya and its so called “line of death” across the Gulf of Sidra. Libya claimed the whole Golf between the two northernmost land projection, but international law said that sea boundaries should reflect the nature of the adjacent land border, i.e., if the land borders curved inward so should he sea borders. The US Navy sent a couple of F-14s over the line which shot down a couple of Libyan fighters that intercepted them. My guess is that there have been more incidents since (I’m thinking North and South Korea), but none come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/3 "2013-11-26T20:55:15Z")
Still waiting for the Chinese to get around to trying to reassert their claims to the Amur region. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/4 "2013-11-26T21:04:12Z")
Just a graphic example of Marshall Mcluhans famous quote, the message is the medium. You don’t use an iconic nuclear bomber on a freedom of navigation exercise, to many other choices that would be less inflammatory, come to mind. You would, though, if you wanted to send a message to all parties concerned to cease and stop with the school yard bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/5 "2013-11-26T21:08:00Z")
China has been expanding its claims in the Pacific and trying to bully the smaller countries in the area. Its all about the natural resources. [A Game of Shark and Minnow - Who Will Win Control of the South China Sea? - NYTimes.com](http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/) ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/6 "2013-11-26T21:37:06Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Just a graphic example of Marshall Mcluhans famous quote, the message is the medium. [Oh, really? Well, it just so happens I teach a class at Columbia called “TV, Media and Culture.” So I think my insights into Mr. McLuhan, well, have a great deal of validity!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wWUc8BZgWE) ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/7 "2013-11-26T21:53:59Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > China has been expanding its claims in the Pacific and trying to bully the smaller countries in the area. Its all about the natural resources. [A Game of Shark and Minnow - Who Will Win Control of the South China Sea? - NYTimes.com](http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/) That’s a beautifully illustrated and presented article. Thanks. It’s a little long on the human interest side and sort of cumbersome to get through but still lovely and very informative. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/8 "2013-11-26T22:21:09Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > [Oh, really? Well, it just so happens I teach a class at Columbia called “TV, Media and Culture.” So I think my insights into Mr. McLuhan, well, have a great deal of validity!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wWUc8BZgWE) LOL, that reminded me of Kurt Vonnegut and Rodney Dangerfield. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/9 "2013-11-26T22:31:49Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > China has been expanding its claims in the Pacific and trying to bully the smaller countries in the area. Its all about the natural resources. Of course perish the thought at any other world power would ever consider bullying smaller countries to secure access to natural resources. ---
**Author:** ![David\_H\_Singanas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@David\_H\_Singanas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_H_Singanas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/10 "2013-11-27T05:17:55Z")
The Spratly’s ? The press story I read indicated it was some un-named volcanic islands administered by Japan. The Spratly islands are close to Vietnam. The China government allegedly announced that all civilian airlines would have to request permission to overfly said islands. So overflights by US military aircraft are excluded from the directive. Obviously this is a China ploy to establish a legal claim to the un-named island group which BTW has no human inhabitants. China probes of Japan -administered ocean territories are behind the drive for a Japan remilitarization. Singanas 11-26-13 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/11 "2013-11-27T16:48:37Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > The Spratly’s ? The press story I read indicated it was some un-named volcanic islands administered by Japan. It is/was. Look up “Senkaku Islands”. (Actually, here’s a link: [Thanks Mr. Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands) ) The Spratley’s are a _different_ set of islands that China is trying to assert ownership of. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/12 "2013-11-27T18:33:51Z")
So china has decided to respond with their take on freedom of navigation, by sortieing a carrier battlegroup, whose course will take it near the coast of okinawa. Fair play to them, the japanese should sortie a couple of tug boats just in case ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/13 "2013-11-27T18:37:08Z")
A carrier battle group without aircraft. Because they haven’t worked out that part of the equation. Just routine, they were planning to put that thing to sea to start working out the bugs and the necessary protocols and processes. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/14 "2013-11-27T19:04:37Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > A carrier battle group without aircraft. Because they haven’t worked out that part of the equation. > > Just routine, they were planning to put that thing to sea to start working out the bugs and the necessary protocols and processes. I’m thinking, winged aircraft or not, it would make a pretty damn good assault ship. I’m guessing that if it needed to, it could carry a hell of a lot of troops and troop-carrying and attack helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/15 "2013-11-27T19:09:38Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > The Spratly’s ? The press story I read indicated it was some un-named > volcanic islands administered by Japan. The Spratly islands are close > to Vietnam. The China government allegedly announced that all civilian > airlines would have to request permission to overfly said islands. > So overflights by US military aircraft are excluded from the > directive. > > Obviously this is a China ploy to establish a legal claim to the un-named > island group which BTW has no human inhabitants. China probes of Japan > -administered ocean territories are behind the drive for a Japan remilitarization. > > Singanas 11-26-13 Yes different part of the pacific, similar political goals. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/16 "2013-11-27T21:59:51Z")
I had to look that up myself and if I pegged it correctly, those islands seem to be just outside their 200 mile economic zone (or whatever the proper term is). The claim on the Spratlys seems a lot more tenuous but the NYT article didn’t really go into a lot detail on the history. It seems to generally be a land grab by all parties concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Amblydoper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Amblydoper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amblydoper)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/17 "2013-11-27T22:06:27Z")
How does one “Fly dramatically?” ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/18 "2013-11-27T22:14:42Z")
IDK. I’d image there was a lot of hair tossing though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/19 "2013-11-27T22:15:06Z")
The Chinese are gonna mess with the US Navy? That’ll make the Battle of Santiago de Cuba looks like an even fight. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/20 "2013-11-27T22:49:32Z")
It’s been quite a week for Australian diplomats, following the Indonesian phone tapping imbroglio, getting rumbled for bugging the East Timorese during the Timor Sea Gap negotiations and now the Chinese over the Senkaku Islands. > [@](#): > > Ms Bishop on Tuesday announced she had summoned Beijing’s ambassador to voice opposition to the zone, saying the timing and the manner of China’s announcement was unhelpful and would not contribute to regional stability. OK, now having their ambassador carpetted by Australia isn’t much more severe than being slapped with a warm lettuce leaf, but the Chinese responded with wonderful display of pique and indignation. China warns (Australian Foreign Minister) Julie Bishop’s [‘irresponsible’ criticism](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-27/china-rejects-australian-criticism-of-new-air-zone/5120920)of the new air zone could hurt relations. It could only be an unfortunate coincidence that Bishop is due to travel to China for the next round of discussions on a free trade deal with Australia’s largest trading partner Conversely, in regard the the US sending a pair of B52s into area in a “pre-planned” mission. > [@](#): > > Chinese defence ministry spokesman Geng Yansheng said the the military “monitored” the flights. > > “The Chinese military monitored the entire process, carried out identification in a timely manner, and ascertained the type of US aircraft,” he said in a statement, which did not include any expression of regret or anger. That’s a masterclass real politics. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855.md?page=2)