# US warplanes defy Chinese air defence rules with B-52 flyover of disputed area **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 26, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855 "2013-11-26T20:16:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/81 "2013-12-03T01:17:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Read my post…I said that Obama is PERCEIVED as weak. the Chinese have drawn their conclusions from a variety of situations: > -Benghazi Only a small number of Republicans give a fuck about Benghazi, and most of those are talking out of their ass. > [@](#): > > Egypt Given China’s repeated claims about non-interference in the internal affairs of other nations, your claim here is ludicrous. We left another nation alone to manage it’s own affairs with only minimal guidance (mostly ignored) from us. What the fuck do you think we were going to do here? NO ONE thinks we’re “weak” for sitting back and letting them sort out their own mess. > [@](#): > > Syria Same as above on the messing around with other nations crap. China actively opposes any outside intervention. So NO, they do not perceive us as weak for not intervening. > [@](#): > > North Korea Here you’re just plain out there in \*\*adaher \*\*territory. For 30 years NK has rattled the sabers and issued demands every time there is a new SK or US leader. All too often they’ve been appeased. This time what did they get? Nothing. No visits from ex-presidents, no aid, no offers of gifts for being less belligerent. NOTHING. In fact, they got an increased US presence and overflights of SK by B2 bombers. Obama came through this looking pretty fucking tough and unflinching compared to every previous president. > [@](#): > > -Russia (Obama is regularly insulted by Putin) Oh gee darn. No one gives a shit what Putin thinks. Their empire is gone, their military is a faded dream and completely hollow. They’re back to being nothing more than Bigmouths in the Backwoods. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/82 "2013-12-03T02:08:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Same as above on the messing around with other nations crap. China actively opposes any outside intervention. So NO, they do not perceive us as weak for not intervening. So . . . China is safe in assuming that the US will also stand back and let China and Japan “sort out their own mess?” China can be sure that the US will regard Taiwan as China’s internal affair where the parties should “sort out their own mess?” That seems to be what you’re saying here. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/83 "2013-12-03T02:11:54Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Americans (and, come to think of it, Nepalese) are very efficient at cutting down forests. Possibly, but after borrowing the money and buying a Chinese made chain-saw to do the job. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/84 "2013-12-03T02:47:48Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > So . . . China is safe in assuming that the US will also stand back and let China and Japan “sort out their own mess?” China can be sure that the US will regard Taiwan as China’s internal affair where the parties should “sort out their own mess?” That seems to be what you’re saying here. Not at all. You’re putting words (or thoughts) into my head to build your straw man. What China is doing isn’t an internal matter. It affects many outside nations, of which we happen to be in close alliance to several. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/85 "2013-12-03T03:03:32Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Not at all. You’re putting words (or thoughts) into my head to build your straw man. > > What China is doing isn’t an internal matter. It affects many outside nations, of which we happen to be in close alliance to several. But that’s always been China’s game: to lay claim to a territory, define it as an “internal matter,” and then blast outsiders for “foreign interference”–including any parties who might disagree with its unilaterally redrawing its borders. That’s what its always done, from Tibet on through the South China Sea. _That is exactly what it’s doing now_, with this new defense zone. Now who’s being naive, Kay? ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/86 "2013-12-03T05:51:39Z")
[/QUOTE] Rush Limbaugh is not the most reliable source on foreign policy. After all, I believe we are talking about the President who ramped up the war in Afghanistan, had the SEALs kill Bin Laden, ordered dozens of drone strikes, and participated in an intervention in Libya. No, considering most of them can have far better jobs. [/QUOTE] Who is Rush Limbaugh, and why would I know his viewpoint? Isn’t the unemployment rate in the US around 8%? They don’t have better jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/87 "2013-12-03T06:09:44Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Read my post…I said that Obama is PERCEIVED as weak. the Chinese have drawn their conclusions from a variety of situations: > -Benghazi > -Egypt > -Syria > -North Korea > -Russia (Obama is regularly insulted by Putin) > Of course, you are free to draw your won conclusions.🆒 Besides what others have said, you have absolutely no evidence beyond your own fantasy vision of Obama as Neville Chamberlain rather than a Scoop Jackson on foreign policy ignoring such facts as that China’s new leadership has been more prone to be aggressive in foreign policy and that its power is growing which makes it bolder. > [@](#): > > > [@Doggo](#): > > > > Rush Limbaugh is not the most reliable source on foreign policy. After all, I believe we are talking about the President who ramped up the war in Afghanistan, had the SEALs kill Bin Laden, ordered dozens of drone strikes, and participated in an intervention in Libya. > > No, considering most of them can have far better jobs. Who is Rush Limbaugh, and why would I know his viewpoint? [/QUOTE] Considering most of what you’re saying is just a repetition of his Obama bashing, one assumes you got it from Mr. Limbaugh. I assume you’re joking about asking who Rush Limbaugh is. > [@](#): > > Isn’t the unemployment rate in the US around 8%? > They don’t have better jobs. Yes and the thing is they don’t need to work in manufacturing cheap plastic goods. Its far more cheaper to do in China and it benefits both countries by industrializing them while offering cheap goods here. We would do far better to create jobs via restoring eliminated government jobs and retraining workers. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/88 "2013-12-03T15:05:38Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > But that’s always been China’s game: to lay claim to a territory, define it as an “internal matter,” > > \ > > Now who’s being naive, Kay? Please don’t play this foolish game of “You said X, so I’m going to assume you meant Q”. This isn’t an “internal” matter. They’re trying to split the opposition by claiming it isn’t the USA’s business and they will only negotiate (which they won’t actually do) individually with each affected country rather than with the group as a whole and/or any outside bodies. It is an operational strategy and nothing more. If we wanted to play the same game, I’m sure we could blast them for trying to interfere in our ‘internal affairs’ by trying to interfere with our alliance with Japan. But we generally don’t play the game in the same manner, nor should we necessarily play by the rules they’re trying to set. If that bothers them, then I will offer them a crate of my finest Yoctoviolins. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/89 "2013-12-03T16:21:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > rather than a Scoop Jackson on foreign policy . Scoop was my hero, I was a delegate-nominee for him during his Presidential campaign. He would have made a fantastic president. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/90 "2013-12-03T22:01:48Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > China has been expanding its claims in the Pacific and trying to bully the smaller countries in the area. Its all about the natural resources. [A Game of Shark and Minnow - Who Will Win Control of the South China Sea? - NYTimes.com](http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/) Wow, amazing presentation on that! It combines moving pictures with words, like an article with gifs only not annoying at all. I hate “articles” that are basically videos, this gives me the best of both ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/91 "2013-12-04T01:44:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > We would do far better to create jobs via restoring eliminated government jobs and retraining workers. Whoawhoawhoa, who are you and what have you done with **Qin She Huangdi**. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/92 "2013-12-04T04:26:52Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Besides what others have said, you have absolutely no evidence beyond your own fantasy vision of Obama as Neville Chamberlain rather than a Scoop Jackson on foreign policy ignoring such facts as that China’s new leadership has been more prone to be aggressive in foreign policy and that its power is growing which makes it bolder. > > Who is Rush Limbaugh, and why would I know his viewpoint? Considering most of what you’re saying is just a repetition of his Obama bashing, one assumes you got it from Mr. Limbaugh. I assume you’re joking about asking who Rush Limbaugh is. Yes and the thing is they don’t need to work in manufacturing cheap plastic goods. Its far more cheaper to do in China and it benefits both countries by industrializing them while offering cheap goods here. We would do far better to create jobs via restoring eliminated government jobs and retraining workers. [/QUOTE] \< I assume you’re joking about asking who Rush Limbaugh is. \> No. Again, why would I know who he is? \ Wow, it’s like the US doesn’t have a debt of 17 TRILLION $ and rising. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/93 "2013-12-04T04:31:27Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Only a small number of Republicans give a fuck about Benghazi, and most of those are talking out of their ass. > > Given China’s repeated claims about non-interference in the internal affairs of other nations, your claim here is ludicrous. We left another nation alone to manage it’s own affairs with only minimal guidance (mostly ignored) from us. What the fuck do you think we were going to do here? NO ONE thinks we’re “weak” for sitting back and letting them sort out their own mess. > > Same as above on the messing around with other nations crap. China actively opposes any outside intervention. So NO, they do not perceive us as weak for not intervening. > > Here you’re just plain out there in \*\*adaher \*\*territory. > > For 30 years NK has rattled the sabers and issued demands every time there is a new SK or US leader. All too often they’ve been appeased. This time what did they get? Nothing. No visits from ex-presidents, no aid, no offers of gifts for being less belligerent. NOTHING. In fact, they got an increased US presence and overflights of SK by B2 bombers. Obama came through this looking pretty fucking tough and unflinching compared to every previous president. > > Oh gee darn. No one gives a shit what Putin thinks. Their empire is gone, their military is a faded dream and completely hollow. They’re back to being nothing more than Bigmouths in the Backwoods. \ So you don’t care that the US ambassador was murdered, and that nothing has been done about it? \ Given that he does have a lot of nukes, that might not apply to the US government and the military. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/94 "2013-12-04T04:39:25Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Whoawhoawhoa, who are you and what have you done with **Qin She Huangdi**. I’ve gone a bit of a leftward shift. 😉 > [@](#): > > > [@Doggo](#): > > > > Considering most of what you’re saying is just a repetition of his Obama bashing, one assumes you got it from Mr. Limbaugh. I assume you’re joking about asking who Rush Limbaugh is. > > > > Yes and the thing is they don’t need to work in manufacturing cheap plastic goods. Its far more cheaper to do in China and it benefits both countries by industrializing them while offering cheap goods here. We would do far better to create jobs via restoring eliminated government jobs and retraining workers. > > \< I assume you’re joking about asking who Rush Limbaugh is. \> > No. Again, why would I know who he is? Because I’m pretty sure you’re an American and he’s a fairly famous talk radio personality. > [@](#): > > \ > Wow, it’s like the US doesn’t have a debt of 17 TRILLION $ and rising. If you account for such factors as percentage of GDP, inflation, and so forth the figure is far more manageable (the deficit is well on the track to going down). Not to mention that government cuts would result in less stimulation in the economy, slowing down our growth and thus result in us not paying off the debt anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/95 "2013-12-04T05:36:15Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > . . . So you don’t care that the US ambassador was murdered, and that nothing has been done about it? . . . So you don’t care that Glenn Beck raped and murdered an underaged girl? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/96 "2013-12-04T08:17:18Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > So you don’t care that Glenn Beck raped and murdered an underaged girl? Really, it has been proven in a court of law & he is in jail; now? I must have missed that. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/97 "2013-12-04T11:33:59Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > \ > So you don’t care that the US ambassador was murdered, and that nothing has been done about it? Quite a lot has been done about it. The problem is that the people who think that something different should have been done about it are largely basing their views on ideological opposition rather than practical reality. ---
**Author:** ![hapkido1996](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@hapkido1996](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hapkido1996)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/98 "2013-12-04T11:46:16Z")
Just throwing this out there: China has veto power in the UN(SC) and is just about propping NK up single-handedly. The US, SK and Japan need China if they are going to make progress with the NK issue. That may be a source of leverage for China. In other news: China has recently tried to push SK out of international waters further north in the Yellow Sea, but SK told them to piss off. This most recent move by China also attempts to encroach on what SK considers its air zone, but in the south. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/99 "2013-12-04T13:38:39Z")
This should “put the fear of God” into the Chinese leadership! Or confirm the weakness of the US:cool: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855/100 "2013-12-04T14:13:02Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > This should “put the fear of God” into the Chinese leadership! Or confirm the weakness of the US:cool: Why is it that the US is always so keen to “put the fear of God” into other countries? It’s a terrible long-term diplomatic approach. While it may work in the immediate term it irritates your allies, makes you a higher priority target for your enemies and makes neutral parties look for ways not to deal with you at all. But my opinion of Biden being generally low, I doubt his visit will achieve much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-warplanes-defy-chinese-air-defence-rules-with-b-52-flyover-of-disputed-area/674855.md?page=6)