# USA Communist Party's top 10 reasons to defeat Bush in '04? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343 "2004-06-02T22:55:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SallyStar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SallyStar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SallyStar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/1 "2004-06-02T22:55:18Z")
From the Communist Party, USA web page … > [@](#): > > 1. \*\*Bush is destroying workers rights and outsourcing jobs \*\* instead of protecting the right to organize and creating new jobs rebuilding schools, bridges, roads and hospitals > > 2. \*\*Bush is privatizing Medicare, Social Security and public education \*\* with phony reforms instead of enacting health care for all, protecting retirement funds and full funding for public education through college. > > 3. \*\*Bush is bankrupting the Federal Government \*\* with giant tax cuts for the very rich and super-funds to the military instead of securing the budget for human needs by taxing the rich and spending on human needs. > > 4. \*\*Bush is rolling back civil rights gains \*\* instead of enforcing and expanding affirmative action to end racism in all areas of life. > > 5. \*\*Bush is curtailing women’s rights and choice \*\* by undermining Roe v. Wade instead of upholding the right to choice and ending the gender wage gap. > > 6. \*\*Bush is abusing immigrant workers \*\* in low-wage jobs instead of providing a clear path to citizenship and equal rights. > > 7. \*\*Bush is exploiting and ruining the environment \*\* by protecting corporate polluters instead of conserving our natural resources for the public good. > > 8. **Bush’s war in Iraq is a disaster for our security and economy.** He is pushing for more preemptive wars and for first strike nuclear military policy instead of negotiations and cooperation utilizing the UN. > > 9. \*\*Bush is denying civil liberties and free speech \*\* in the name of fighting terrorism instead of repealing the USA Patriot Act and helping cities, towns and states fund firefighters and police. > > 10. \*\*Bush discriminates against Gays and Lesbians \*\* with a Constitutional Amendment instead of expanding civil rights and liberties for all. I don’t see a single issue in the CPUSA top 10 relative to Bush where they differ from the US Democrats. On what political issues, do the Democrat’s and Communist’s differ that make them separate political organizations? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/2 "2004-06-02T23:10:52Z")
I suspect they might have a “slight” disagreement about property rights, no? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/3 "2004-06-02T23:29:58Z")
Remember the old adage… The enemy of my enemy is my friend. There have been stranger bedfellows. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/4 "2004-06-02T23:30:34Z")
There are lots of folks from all over the political spectrum, including some that one could fairly characterize as “right-wing,” who think that the Bush Administration is one of the worst in our history, and for many of the same reasons. That doesn’t mean that they’re all the same. Trying to lump them all into one pile is a bit of stretch, to put it kindly. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/5 "2004-06-02T23:34:38Z")
If you look up “irrelevant” in the dictionary you will find the CPUSA logo. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/6 "2004-06-02T23:39:20Z")
I wasn’t aware that the Democrats were in favor of nationalizing all major industries … . :rolleyes: You can read about the Communists’ vision for the United States in a different part of the same website: [http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/13/](http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/13/) **SallyStar** , your attempted smear against the Democrats is ludicrous and dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![SallyStar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SallyStar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SallyStar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/7 "2004-06-02T23:55:54Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > **SallyStar** , your attempted smear against the Democrats is ludicrous and dishonest. It seemed to me that the **TOP** 10 reason’s to defeat Bush in '04 were almost identical to the Democrat’s. I don’t know the odds, maybe (1/2)^10. Wasn’t sure if the other issues on which the Communist and Democrat’s differ were enough to keep the party’s separate. No smear intended, just the facts … ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/8 "2004-06-03T00:27:03Z")
> [@SallyStar](#): > > Wasn’t sure if the other issues on which the Communist and Democrat’s differ were enough to keep the party’s separate. . Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/9 "2004-06-03T00:32:28Z")
That’s right **Sally** , all us Democrats are secretly, deep in our heart of hearts Commies. Worse than Communists, we are frothing at the mouth Bolsheviks lusting for white women, the eight hour day and socialized medicine. Give me a break, already. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/10 "2004-06-03T00:33:12Z")
> [@SallyStar](#): > > It seemed to me that the **TOP** 10 reason’s to defeat Bush in '04 were almost identical to the Democrat’s. But you haven’t shown that **Sally**. All you’ve got is the commies top ten list. Without a democrat top ten list to compare it to, you _cannot_ assert that the two lists are “almost identical.” How do you define almost identical anyway? If something is number one on one list and 7 on the other, is that “almost identical” or do they have to be in the same position? What if there are only 7 identically phrased statements on the two lists? Do the three that differ affect the almost identicallity of the other seven? What’s the standard deviation of your identity? > [@](#): > > Cancel me not–for what then shall remain? > Abscissas, some mantissas, modules, modes > A root or two, a torus and a node > The inverse of my verse, a null domain. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/11 "2004-06-03T00:37:20Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > But you haven’t shown that **Sally**. All you’ve got is the commies top ten list. Without a democrat top ten list to compare it to, you _cannot_ assert that the two lists are “almost identical.” How do you define almost identical anyway? If something is number one on one list and 7 on the other, is that “almost identical” or do they have to be in the same position? What if there are only 7 identically phrased statements on the two lists? Do the three that differ affect the almost identicallity of the other seven? What’s the standard deviation of your identity?[/SIZE] Chill out, and look up the definition of ‘seemed’. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/12 "2004-06-03T01:25:00Z")
> [@SallyStar](#): > > It seemed to me that the **TOP** 10 reason’s to defeat Bush in '04 were almost identical to the Democrat’s. I don’t know the odds, maybe (1/2)^10. Wasn’t sure if the other issues on which the Communist and Democrat’s differ were enough to keep the party’s separate. No smear intended, just the facts … You are assuming odds for random events. Has it ever occurred to you that the list is generated for the specific purpose of deceiving people into that the CP is more mainstream than they really are? ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/13 "2004-06-03T01:31:00Z")
Obviously, the Communist Party is trying to project a moderate image in this particular list. I would even bet this is a conscious attempt to demonstrate that they are no further from mainstream political discourse than Democrats. I think there also needs to be some distinction between the Communist and Democrat platforms made, aside from the property issues that have been mentioned. For instance, ``` The Democratic party has not actually come out against American military involvement in Iraq, even though many of its members have. If I understand John Kerry's position correctly, he opposes any early withdrawal, and perhaps would even raise troop levels in Iraq. Of course he could change his stance between now and November, or events in Iraq could make any current position unrealistic by then. Kerry, Gephardt, Edwards, etc. simply maintain that the occupation was poorly planned and implemented, not that the war in Iraq was illegal or groundless. ``` Personally, when I see the communists attack others on environmental issues or pollution, I can only think of how awful some of the industrial cities in Poland, the former Czechoslovakia, and Romania were - not to mention Chernobyl. Also I don’t think Communist countries were ever big on gay rights, civil liberties, and free speech. Does Fidel Castro know one of his brother-parties supports these ideas? Its obvious that the CPUSA is attempting to sound as innocuous as possible, but this list is largely a complete sham - if they truly are a Communist Party. I also believe that the Green Party would have an identical list, and the Libertarians would agree with points 5-10 to varying degrees (especially #9 and # 10). Does that make them fellow travellers too? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/14 "2004-06-03T01:35:34Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > That’s right **Sally** , all us Democrats are secretly, deep in our heart of hearts Commies. Worse than Communists, we are frothing at the mouth Bolsheviks **lusting for white women** , the eight hour day and socialized medicine. Give me a break, already. (bolding mine) Um, I gathered the sarcasm in the rest of your post, but, um, what the hell? Where did THAT come from? I was not aware that Bolsheviks lusted specifically for white women (especially considering that most of their compatriots were white women)… Eight hour day and socialized medicine I could go for, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/15 "2004-06-03T09:49:20Z")
From [Socialism USA](http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/13/) (official Communist Party USA document): > [@](#): > > **The Foundations of Socialism** > > Political power would be in the hands of working people. Socialism starts with nationalization of the main means of production - the plants, factories, agri-business farms and everything necessary to produce what society needs. The large monopoly corporations and banks come under public ownership, that is, under the collective ownership of the entire working class and people, who have the leading role in building socialism. > > Socialism also means public ownership of the energy industry and all the natural resources. It eliminates forever the power of the capitalist class to exploit and oppress the majority. > > A socialist government draws up plans covering the entire economy. They are drawn up with maximum participation of the people, from the shop level on up. Such plans are achieved because they harmonize the interests of all, because there are no conflicts arising from exploitation of workers and no dog-eat-dog competition. From the [2000 Democratic Party Platform](http://www.democrats.org/about/2000platform.html#prosperity): > [@](#): > > [Bill Clinton and Al Gore] took office with a new set of ideas about how to get the economy moving again. They knew that the private sector is the engine of economic growth, but they also knew that, in Franklin Roosevelt’s phrase, “the national community” - acting through government - can make a big difference… > > …In the private sector, Democrats believe in supporting the startups, the small businesses, and the entrepreneurs that are making the New Economy go… ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/16 "2004-06-03T10:23:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Spavined Gelding > That’s right Sally, all us Democrats are secretly, deep in our heart of hearts Commies. Worse than Communists, we are frothing at the mouth Bolsheviks lusting for white women, the eight hour day and socialized medicine. Give me a break, already. > > (bolding mine) > > Um, I gathered the sarcasm in the rest of your post, but, um, what the hell? Where did THAT come from? I was not aware that Bolsheviks lusted specifically for white women (especially considering that most of their compatriots were white women)… > > Eight hour day and socialized medicine I could go for, though. 😉 Aaah, but you forget that bolshevism is an international Jewish conspiracy, see? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/17 "2004-06-03T10:57:37Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > I also believe that the Green Party would have an identical list, and the Libertarians would agree with points 5-10 to varying degrees (especially #9 and # 10). Does that make them fellow travellers too? I agree with 8 through 10, and half of 7. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/18 "2004-06-03T13:14:07Z")
Hi. I’m the Straight Dope Bolshevik. I wouldn’t vote Democrat if you paid me. How does that fit into your neat little theory, **Sally**? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/19 "2004-06-03T13:22:34Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > Hi. I’m the Straight Dope Bolshevik. > > I wouldn’t vote Democrat if you paid me. How does that fit into your neat little theory, **Sally**? Well, of course not! But would you vote Democrat to further the cause of anarcho-syndicalism, or as an act of solidarity with the industrial proletariat? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343/20 "2004-06-03T13:41:21Z")
Come on folks. The further left you go, the closer to socialism and communism you get. The further right you go, the closer to facism you get. Anyone that has any level of political awareness knows that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-communist-partys-top-10-reasons-to-defeat-bush-in-04/248343.md?page=2)