# USA - did the Founding Fathers consider other names for the new country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485 "2014-02-16T18:49:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/1 "2014-02-16T18:49:13Z")
Who exactly named America? And were any other names considered before “America” was chosen? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/2 "2014-02-16T19:04:23Z")
“America” was chosen long before the founding fathers of the US were alive. The earliest known reference to the name is in maps made by [Martin Waldseemüller](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Waldseem%C3%BCller) in 1507. The name is a Latinized version of [Amerigo Vespucci](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci). ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/3 "2014-02-16T19:05:55Z")
The name was arrived at mostly by default and is more of a descriptive term rather than an explicitly chosen name for the country as a whole. The United States wasn’t meant to be set up like other centrally run countries. The Founding Father viewed it as a collection of states bound together by a loose federal structure under the Constitution. It was the states themselves that got traditional names in the style of most other countries. The states were viewed as the unit of government most equivalent to other countries similar the way that the countries in the European Union retain their names today and just have a label that indicates that they are unified. As a matter of fact, _The_ United States wasn’t commonly used by the Founding Fathers or anyone else until much later. The more common term was _These_ United States until after the Civil War. It is a subtle but important distinction. The original term emphasized that the country was just a collection of semi-independent states while the newer term implies it is a single collective unit. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/4 "2014-02-16T19:05:55Z")
> [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](#): > > Who exactly named America? > > And were any other names considered before “America” was chosen? Part of your question, as above, is answered here: [Why was America named after Amerigo Vespucci?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/951/why-was-america-named-after-amerigo-vespucci) As you will see, the “America” part of the name was chosen a couple hundred years before the Founding Fathers were born. As to why they decided on “The United States of America,” as opposed to just “America” or “The Republic of America” … good question. It seems to me back then everybody was obsessed with identifying themselves as “John Smith of Virginia” or “Deidrich Knickerbocker of New York” ;). While they wanted a unified nation, they also wanted to keep that cultural identity that, to be fair, they had been born with for the previous two or three generations. JMHO. YMMV. ETA: Fooey! Ninja’ed! ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/5 "2014-02-16T19:18:43Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > As a matter of fact, _The_ United States wasn’t commonly used by the Founding Fathers or anyone else until much later. The more common term was _These_ United States until after the Civil War. It is a subtle but important distinction. The original term emphasized that the country was just a collection of semi-independent states while the newer term implies it is a single collective unit. Eh. > [@](#): > > We the People of **the** United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for **the** United States of America. Not that you’re wrong; “these” was indeed commonly used (and still is occasionally.) But it was always just a rhetorical device. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/6 "2014-02-16T19:54:17Z")
Little anecdote I remember from a general U. S. History textbook (don’t know how true this is): When the newly-independent United States sent its first ambassador (John Adams?) to England and he arrived there to present his credentials, the receiving party (whoever that was) sniffed: “And how many countries are you representing? One or thirteen?” ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/7 "2014-02-16T21:17:59Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The name was arrived at mostly by default and is more of a descriptive term rather than an explicitly chosen name for the country as a whole. The United States wasn’t meant to be set up like other centrally run countries. The Founding Father viewed it as a collection of states bound together by a loose federal structure under the Constitution. It was the states themselves that got traditional names in the style of most other countries. The states were viewed as the unit of government most equivalent to other countries similar the way that the countries in the European Union retain their names today and just have a label that indicates that they are unified. > > As a matter of fact, _The_ United States wasn’t commonly used by the Founding Fathers or anyone else until much later. The more common term was _These_ United States until after the Civil War. It is a subtle but important distinction. The original term emphasized that the country was just a collection of semi-independent states while the newer term implies it is a single collective unit. Also remember that the first 14 years were not under the Constitution, but the Articles of Confederation - even less of a central authority. They only drafted the Constitution when it became clear to all but the most fanatic that the Articles were too weak an authority to be workable. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/8 "2014-02-16T22:56:40Z")
Let’s look at first use. [QUOTE=Thomas Jefferson et al] We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States [/QUOTE] First they were colonies, then they wanted to be free and independent states. They were united about this. They were of America. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/9 "2014-02-16T23:02:24Z")
Is it only an u.l. that names like Columbia or Washington were considered? I’ve heard that bandied about, but is it just unfounded rumor? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/10 "2014-02-16T23:43:24Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The Founding Father viewed it as a collection of states bound together by a loose federal structure under the Constitution. Strike the word “Constitution” and substitute “Articles of Confederation.” The Federal structure of the Constitution is anything but loose. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/11 "2014-02-16T23:59:45Z")
Related question. What did Britain call “the colonies”. Did they have a name picked out like they did for Canada? > **[Name of Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Canada)** > > While a variety of theories have been postulated for the name of Canada, its origin is now accepted as coming from the St. Lawrence Iroquoian word kanata, meaning 'village' or 'settlement'. In 1535, indigenous inhabitants of the present-day Quebec City region used the word to direct French explorer Jacques Cartier to the village of Stadacona. Cartier later used the word Canada to refer not only to that particular village but to the entire area subject to Donnacona (the chief at Stadacona);\[ F... > [@](#): > > After the British conquest of New France (including ceding of the French colony, Canada) in 1763, the colony was renamed as the Province of Quebec. Following the American revolution and the influx of United Empire Loyalists into Quebec, the colony was split on 26 December 1791 into Upper and Lower Canada, sometime being collectively known as “The Canadas”, the first time that the name “Canada” was used officially ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/12 "2014-02-17T03:01:24Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > As a matter of fact, _The_ United States wasn’t commonly used by the Founding Fathers or anyone else until much later. The more common term was _These_ United States until after the Civil War. It is a subtle but important distinction. The original term emphasized that the country was just a collection of semi-independent states while the newer term implies it is a single collective unit. And I believe that before the Civil War, “The United States” took a plural verb; after the war, singular. “The United States are . . .” became “The United States is . . . .” ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/13 "2014-02-17T03:17:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Related question. What did Britain call “the colonies”. Did they have a name picked out like they did for Canada? > [Name of Canada - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Canada) I’m not following you. The colonies alread had names. Why would the British have picked out new names for them? They were not proposing to make any changes; they were seeking to maintain the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-did-the-founding-fathers-consider-other-names-for-the-new-country/681485/14 "2014-02-17T03:31:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Related question. What did Britain call “the colonies”. Did they have a name picked out like they did for Canada? > [Name of Canada - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Canada) The [1765 Stamp Act](http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/related/stampact.htm) refers to the colonies as “the British colonies in America.” For example: > [@](#): > > AN ACT for granting and applying certain stamp duties, and other duties, in **the British colonies and plantations in America** , towards further defraying the expenses of defending, protecting, and securing the same; and for amending such parts of the several acts of parliament relating to the trade and revenues of the said colonies and plantations, as direct the manner of determining and recovering the penalties and forfeitures therein mentioned. King Georgeo III appears to have used a similar phrase in his [1775 Proclamation of Rebellion](http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/procreb.html): > [@](#): > > Whereas many of our subjects in divers parts of **our Colonies and Plantations in North America** , misled by dangerous and ill designing men, and forgetting the allegiance which they owe to the power that has protected and supported them; after various disorderly acts committed in disturbance of the publick peace, to the obstruction of lawful commerce, and to the oppression of our loyal subjects carrying on the same; have at length proceeded to open and avowed rebellion, by arraying themselves in a hostile manner, to withstand the execution of the law, and traitorously preparing, ordering and levying war against us: . . . On the other hand, in 1766, William Pitt, in [his speech](http://www.history.org/almanack/life/politics/pitt.cfm) defending the colonies before Parliament, simply referred to the colonies as “America.” > [@](#): > > Gentlemen, Sir, > > I have been charged with giving birth to sedition in America. They have spoken their sentiments with freedom against this unhappy act, and that freedom has become their crime. > > Sorry I am to hear the liberty of speech in this House, imputed as a crime. No gentleman ought to be afraid to exercise it. It is a liberty by which the gentleman who calumniates it might have profited, by which he ought to have profited. He ought to have desisted from this project. > > The gentleman tells us, America is obstinate; America is almost in open rebellion. I rejoice that America has resisted. Three million of people so dead to all feelings of liberty, as voluntarily to submit to be slaves, would have been fit instruments to make slaves of the rest.