# USA,.....Do we mean what we say? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2001, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208 "2001-09-27T23:11:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Legolas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Legolas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/1 "2001-09-27T23:11:57Z")
After Sept. 11, I have noticed a few things about what people are saying. I live in Cincinnati, and in April, there were riots in which rocks were thrown at poilce officers and firefighters by very angry people. Now, after this tragedy, we all are in support and deeply care for all of the firefighters and policemen in New York. Does it take a national distaster to show us how much we should appreciate these brave men and women who risk their lives for complete strangers? ``` A few nonrelated things I noticed include the fact that people are very angry and critical of the evil people who performed this act, but when Clear Channel decides not to play certain songs on its stations (out of pure respect), people get very angry and complain. Also, I know a lot of people who critize Israel for its violent retaliations against Palastinians, but then are in total support of retaliatiion against Bin Laden and his supporters. Even though Israel has been dealing with terrorists for quite some time. Does any of this seem strange to you? ``` ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/2 "2001-09-28T00:26:27Z")
Your sig file does [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/announcement.php?forumid=7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/announcement.php?forumid=7) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/3 "2001-09-28T02:52:38Z")
Not only that, but it’s a massive copyright violation. _The Two Towers_, page 23 and 24 in my vintage 1970s paperback edition. _Bad_ elf, _no_ biscuit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/4 "2001-09-28T02:55:32Z")
Elf needs food badly! ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/5 "2001-09-28T14:39:35Z")
I’m not going to respond because your damn sig is too long. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Legolas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Legolas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolas)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/6 "2001-09-28T20:56:08Z")
Ok, Ok I changed my sig, now answer my question! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/7 "2001-09-28T21:43:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Legolas \* > Does it take a national distaster to show us how much we should appreciate these brave men and women who risk their lives for complete strangers? Unfortunately I’d say this is part of the human condition. It often takes tragedies to make people sit up and take notice. Sort of, “You don’t know what you have till you’ve lost it.” I know a Life Flight pilot (hospital helicopter) who says it is not infrequent for his helicopter to get shot at when flying into the seedy parts of the city (Chicago). That blew my mind. Given where they live one of those shooters may someday be relying on that guy to fly them to a hospital and a chance at life. I’d bet money such a person would never again shoot at that helicopter if it saved their life. > [@](#): > > A few nonrelated things I noticed include the fact that people are very angry and critical of the evil people who performed this act, but when Clear Channel decides not to play certain songs on its stations (out of pure respect), people get very angry and complain. It’s your right to complain. I don’t know what the songs were or what, exactly, the people complaining were saying so I can’t make a value judgement on the situation you are describing. > [@](#): > > Also, I know a lot of people who critize Israel for its violent retaliations against Palastinians, but then are in total support of retaliatiion against Bin Laden and his supporters. I’m just guessing but I imagine people who support Israel in the case you describe probably see Palestinians as the aggreived party. They also see the US as the aggreived party in the latest attacks. Holding those two positions are not logically inconsistent. If you want more on Israel and Palestine search this board…there are many threads on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/8 "2001-09-28T21:45:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m just guessing but I imagine people who support **Israel** in the case you describe… That should read **Palestine**. ---
**Author:** ![Legolas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Legolas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolas)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2001, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/9 "2001-09-28T21:59:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > I’m just guessing but I imagine people who support **Israel** in the case you describe… > > That should read **Palestine**. \*\* \*actually, the correct term is Israel, as that is the name it is recognized by other countries politically and socially. It was called Palistine and was a British Territory until Britain gave Israel to the Zionists and it was declared the National Jewish State. The name Israel comes from the Bible (or in Christian and Catholic terms, The Old Testiment) when God tells Jacob to change his name to Israel (Or the Hebrew Yisrael)which translates as “One who wrestles with God.” The British originally offered Uganda to the Zionists, but they refused the offer because Israel is their homeland (and besides, Uganda is Landlocked). ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2001, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/10 "2001-09-29T02:22:51Z")
Actually, I think the word he wanted to use there WAS “Palestine”. He must have misspoke himself, as the sentence doesn’t make any sense reading the way it is. > [@](#): > > I’m just guessing but I imagine people who support Israel in the case you describe probably see Palestinians as the aggreived party. I somehow doubt that people who support Israel probably see the **Palestinians** as the aggrieved party. People who support Israel would see **Israel** as the aggrieved party. Prolly s’posed to say: > [@](#): > > I’m just guessing but I imagine people who support Palestine in the case you describe probably see Palestinians as the aggreived party. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2001, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/11 "2001-09-29T06:41:42Z")
**Duck Duck Goose** has the right of it hence my correction immediately following my post. It certainly didn’t make sense the way I first wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![Legolas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Legolas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/12 "2001-09-30T00:41:25Z")
Oh, ok, whoops. I can’t believe I wasted my time correcting nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/13 "2001-09-30T01:23:43Z")
Somone is shooting at ambulance helecoptors in Chicago? Who? I can’t find anything on this. This would be BIG news. It makes the news when ambulance DRIVERS get shot at. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2001, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-do-we-mean-what-we-say/84208/14 "2001-09-30T05:57:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > \*\*Somone is shooting at ambulance helecoptors in Chicago? > > Who? I can’t find anything on this. > > This would be BIG news. It makes the news when ambulance DRIVERS get shot at. \*\* Sorry…I have no cite for this. I described the guy as a friend in the interests of brevity but he is actually a friend of a friend so my connection is a bit distant and I’ve only met him a few times. The guy used to be in the Navy sailing around in nuclear missile subs. I know that is verified because he applied for a job at my company at the behest of my friend and my company verifies backgrounds given on resumes. He left the service and learned how to fly helicopters (also verified via our HR department…HR let me know over drinks one night). Given his background my take on the guy was a reasonably stable and straightforward dude. Could he be making it all up? Sure…I suppose so but my gut reaction was one of belief. Can I be fooled (by HR or the guy in question)? You betcha but that’s the best I’ve got for you for now. I know that’s not kosher on these boards so I’ll ask my frined and see if I can get more detail. All of that said I don’t see why him having people on the ground taking random potshots would necessarily make the news. For all I know that’s business as usual (it sounded as if it happened pn more than one occasion) and he wasn’t unduly concerned. Certainly not enough to phone the police or media. What could he tell the police anyway? Some guy he can’t identify in any way, shape or form was shooting at him in some 8 square block area? Then again how he new someone was shooting at _him_ (unless his helo was hit) is beyond me. Maybe he was yanking my chain.