# USA Mens National Team Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196 "2015-06-10T20:31:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/21 "2015-06-11T20:05:17Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The US has never had a big goal threat against good defenses. Hopefully a couple of Johansson, Agudelo, Rubin, etc pass him in the next 3 years, but he’s still gotta be the front runner for starting forward in 2018. He’ll definitely be the first choice through qualifying. That’s true, but the problem with Altidore is that he’s not the player you’d want your one chance to win a game to. He certainly isn’t McBride, Dempsey or Donovan (even if the last two were never true CFs). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/22 "2015-06-11T21:20:22Z")
At this point it seems that focusing on more of a faster group of forwards - like Johannson and Morris (or Wood, it seems now, or Zardes) gives the US a greater dynamism than Altidore gave. The quick forwards also appear to make Bradley a better player (or at least seem to give him more time to pick out players making runs). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/23 "2015-06-11T22:17:51Z")
Why is it that any time the US gets stomped by a European power in a friendly, the comments range from, “see, I told you the US Mens Team sucks,” to “did you really think the US would win, you fool?” But when the US wins, the only comments I seem hear are, “it’s only a friendly.” Incidentally, international friendlies are frequently the most vicious “exhibition matches” I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/24 "2015-06-11T23:35:59Z")
One place (maybe the only place) where no one seems to hate us (except CONCACAF nations) is on the football pitch. We never see the venum of an England v Scotland or a Brazil v Argentina or even a Poland v Germany. Maybe its because we are still noobish in the game. The Euros get upset when someone throws a flair but in central America they might throw a cup of urine at you. Its really vicious down there in competitive matches. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/25 "2015-06-12T00:43:59Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > One place (maybe the only place) where no one seems to hate us (except CONCACAF nations) is on the football pitch. We never see the venum of an England v Scotland or a Brazil v Argentina or even a Poland v Germany. Maybe its because we are still noobish in the game. > > The Euros get upset when someone throws a flair but in central America they might throw a cup of urine at you. Its really vicious down there in competitive matches. oops, nm ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/26 "2015-06-12T00:45:53Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > At this point it seems that focusing on more of a faster group of forwards - like Johannson and Morris (or Wood, it seems now, or Zardes) gives the US a greater dynamism than Altidore gave. The quick forwards also appear to make Bradley a better player (or at least seem to give him more time to pick out players making runs). Nah, Bradley is the same player he’s been for a while. The formation just suits him here. In the WC they had him much further up the field with only 1 forward, when he’s a better deep lying midfielder. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/27 "2015-06-12T06:51:06Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > What are your thoughts on his potential? When he was a kid, it was clear he was the class of his age group in So Cal. Hard to say how high he can go at the moment. He needs regular playing time at a club. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Nah, Bradley is the same player he’s been for a while. The formation just suits him here. In the WC they had him much further up the field with only 1 forward, when he’s a better deep lying midfielder. It helps that Bradley is healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/28 "2015-06-12T06:52:01Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Why is it that any time the US gets stomped by a European power in a friendly, the comments range from, “see, I told you the US Mens Team sucks,” to “did you really think the US would win, you fool?” But when the US wins, the only comments I seem hear are, “it’s only a friendly.” cite? I really don’t think anyone says that. The USA are not a bad team at all. Highly athletic and fit if technically limited compared to the top teams. The world rankings are not reliable but the USA tend to hover around the high 20’s and that is probably fair and not too shabby at all. The nature of football is that any half-way decent team can beat a top-tier team but stringing those results together across multiple games in a competitive environment is what defines a champion team and that is what the USA (and definitely England) can’t do. > [@](#): > > Incidentally, international friendlies are frequently the most vicious “exhibition matches” I’ve ever seen. In my experience I’d suggest completely the opposite. They just don’t carry the bite of true competitive games. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/29 "2015-06-12T09:14:32Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > In my experience I’d suggest completely the opposite. They just don’t carry the bite of true competitive games. English (and British) Friendlies yes. For Germans, other Euros and most S Americans that I have seen, they take them quite seriously. Its a way to stake your claim to the top squad and keeps first team players on their toes. Of course British people tend to value club football over Internationals, so it could be that as well, unlike Germans, and S Americans, for whom winning International glory is still paramount. Spain used to be like the British as well, until I would say about a decade ago. Not coincidentally, their national team started dominating then. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/30 "2015-06-12T09:56:52Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Why is it that any time the US gets stomped by a European power in a friendly, the comments range from, “see, I told you the US Mens Team sucks,” to “did you really think the US would win, you fool?” But when the US wins, the only comments I seem hear are, “it’s only a friendly.” > > Incidentally, international friendlies are frequently the most vicious “exhibition matches” I’ve ever seen. Because football fans can be nasty and vindictive. Im sure you can also recognise this in a number of US sports followers. The fact is it was a friendly. Sure, it’s better to do well in such games than be beaten, but the the game of football/soccer is filled with teams who do well in friendlies(and indeed in competative qualifying) but regularly fail to produce on the big stage. In 2000 England beat Germany 5-1 in qualifying. Barely two years later Germany were advancing all the way to the WC final whilst England were knocked out in the QF’s(admittedly by the eventual winners). There really is little correlation between friendlies and WC performances. This is from someone who does wish the US team well. Germany were also recently beaten by Australian in a friendly. Here are Germany’s friendly results in 2014. Whilst unbeaten in these games there was little to suggest their eventual performance in Brazil. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314\_in\_German\_football#Friendly\_matches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_in_German_football#Friendly_matches) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/31 "2015-06-12T12:05:11Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > English (and British) Friendlies yes. For Germans, other Euros and most S Americans that I have seen, they take them quite seriously. Its a way to stake your claim to the top squad and keeps first team players on their toes. > > Of course British people tend to value club football over Internationals, so it could be that as well, unlike Germans, and S Americans, for whom winning International glory is still paramount. > > Spain used to be like the British as well, until I would say about a decade ago. Not coincidentally, their national team started dominating then. I’m sure there’s a continuum of seriousness regarding friendlies, but in general surely you would agree that competitive games are more…competitive and taken more seriously than friendlies? that’s my point. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/32 "2015-06-12T12:41:49Z")
Tell me which is more likely tp be taken seriously by an England fan. A friendly against Germany. Or a qualifier against San Marino. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/33 "2015-06-12T15:56:04Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Tell me which is more likely tp be taken seriously by an England fan. A friendly against Germany. Or a qualifier against San Marino. The fans don’t play or manage. And your example doesn’t stack up. The more relevant question to ask would be which game would the manager and players take more seriously, a friendly against Germany or a WC QF against Germany? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/34 "2015-06-12T17:22:54Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Tell me which is more likely tp be taken seriously by an England fan. A friendly against Germany. Or a qualifier against San Marino. If there was any possibility of being beaten by or drawing with San Marino then the San Marino game for sure. You really are making an unfair comparison though - England’s most historic rivals versus the shittiest international team known to man. Then again we are talking about football. Football does reduce it’s followers to raving partisan idiots. Which is why we have posters suggesting this US victory is greater than it really was, and other posters minimizing it. I do lean towards the latter camp though. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/35 "2015-06-12T19:05:18Z")
About 20 years ago friendlies had a much higher value, but nowadays it is quite rare for a friendly to be played where both teams field a full-strength team and/or don’t experiment tactically and/or don’t make significant line-up changes during the match. Even when both teams don’t experiment with personnel and tactics it is usually in friendlies just before major tournaments and both teams will hold back a bit to avoid injuries. Of course the situation was worse a few years ago when Sven Goran-Erikson would change the entire team at half-time, now that FIFA have limited the maximum subs to 6 each for full ‘A’ international friendlies. Note how ‘B’ internationals have died a death over the last few years. This may be partly because clubs are less willing to release players, but it’s also because most teams now are quite happy to field their ‘B-teams’ in ‘A’ internationals, making ‘B’ internationals moribund. Obviously when England play San Marino competitively (which we have done a lot as we keep on being drawn in the same qualifying group), we know the entire San Marino team is going to sit deep in their own half, we know we’re going to win and we know that anything less than 3 or 4 goal margin or giving up a goal is a bad result. However the last friendly against Germany was hardly a much better spectale for the fans, both teams were poor and it was certainly not approached in a competitive spirit by either team (e.g. Germany didn’t even bring most of their key players). As an England fan I would rather watch a qualifying match against a team like Switzerland (a decent team, but not a traditional power or a team we have any real history with) than a friendly against Germany. This is simply because friendlies aren’t that competitive any more. This isn’t trying to take anything away from the USA, their two recent results were good, but of course at the same time everyone knows you couldn’t compare it to say the USA beating Netherlands and Germany back-to-back in the 1st round of the WC. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/36 "2015-06-12T19:35:33Z")
Friendlies ar also good for sides to work on team cohesion; especially if some players play in different leagues. Dont disrespect Switzerland. They beat Spain in the 2010 WC and are on the rise. 😉 I think the footballing world is getting much smaller. A small nation like Belgium could easily win Euro 2016. Uruguay is at or close to the same level as Argentina and Brazil. I know some will hate it but lets do the WC every two years. And, instead of qualifying groups seed the world and have home and away playoffs till we get down to the traditional 32. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/37 "2015-09-09T03:22:10Z")
I attended the match with Brazil tonight. What a clusterfuck of a back line. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/38 "2015-09-12T20:28:56Z")
Nobody else following? Anybody thinking in October we can keep up our streak against Mexico? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/39 "2015-09-13T04:18:14Z")
I think the Brazil match is continuing to heap loads of needed criticism on Klinsmann’s head. He really doesn’t seem like he has any idea of what he’s doing tactically (which was the charge against him when he was in charge of Bayern). He keeps switching CB pairings completely at random. Playing Bedoya as a defensive midfielder was really fucking stupid (and then Klinsi throws him under the bus when he doesn’t succeed at an entirely different position). And it appeared that Klinsmann may have lost the locker room a bit. Jones refused to shake his hand after he was subbed off. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2015, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196/40 "2015-09-13T05:16:12Z")
I think Mexico is going to handily beat us. This needs to get sorted out before qualifying really kicks into gear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/usa-mens-national-team-thread/722196.md?page=3)